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Old 06-09-2011, 10:16 PM   #166
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Default Yeah but....

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Originally Posted by robk View Post
In reality, you could buy a 104 Ferrari F60 kit, correct tires, and a possibly tamiya shock and you would be ready to roll. That's bare bones, but a lot of the stuff is just bling or less than useful. The only things that make a big difference are the aluminum diff (easier to deal with tire changes) and aluminum motor mounts (cooling).
You might as well get the higher optioned kits. The shock looks to be about $35.00 and the wheels and tires are $28.00. Then you still have a Ferrari body like many (most?) will have. The diff and motor mounts add another $55.00. You still don't have all the goodies and have spent around $300.00!!
(For ref. the Pro is $250 and the AYTBR 1X is $280)

My only point, now, and from the beginning, is that the class needs to be more open. Spec classes are fine, but should be cheap and highly restricted. Opening the class up to all f104 varients that are 180mm wide creates a mess. FGP vs, graphite, plastic vs. aluminum, good shocks vs. cheap shocks etc. You may be correct that the other stuff doesn't really matter, but that won't be the preception. You might as well only allow the Ferrarri and call it FOIROC! Just paint 'em different weird colors like pink, purple, and pale yellow. ;-)

Please don't take offence to my replys, I just don't think the Toledo guys are seeing the whole picture. The rules allowing both a "realistic" and "performance" class solves many of the problems.

good racing,
Ned
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:29 PM   #167
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Default Getting late

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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
True, that's why I said "Modern" not Retro bodies.
F104 Pro, Ferrari F60, McLaren MP4-24 = Modern
Lotus 79, McLaren MP4-5,6, Ferrari 643 = retro

There are more modern era bodies available that are not Tamiya brand as well.

http://d-drivesportsenglish.com/inde...ort=20a&page=3
Missed the "modern" But that still leaves only three Tamiya bodies and a handful of "other". Does anyone in the USA stock the other bodies, or do you have to go to Asia? What about the actual width of the cars? I see 180mm, 183mm, and 187mm widths listed for Modern F1's. What do you need to do to get the widths down to 180mm (assuming they are over 180mm)?

Thanks for the info,
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:35 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Missed the "modern" But that still leaves only three Tamiya bodies and a handful of "other". Does anyone in the USA stock the other bodies, or do you have to go to Asia? What about the actual width of the cars? I see 180mm, 183mm, and 187mm widths listed for Modern F1's. What do you need to do to get the widths down to 180mm (assuming they are over 180mm)?

Thanks for the info,
Ned
Width seem to be controlled by.

Wheels, Rear hubs, front arms.

Does anyone sell the flexi cheater front wing?
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:39 AM   #169
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Ned, I know this is your favorit thread on RC tech
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #170
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Ned, I know this is your favorit thread on RC tech
Zuke-You are probably right! As I've said before, I'm basically jealous. I want to race the "weird" stuff and right now things are dead around here except for SCT.

See ya next weekend!
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:41 AM   #171
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Default F1 Width

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Width seem to be controlled by.

Wheels, Rear hubs, front arms.

Does anyone sell the flexi cheater front wing?
Pan cars are pretty simple and narrowing the rear (if it is even necessary!) might just be removing some spacers. That might get complicated on the diff side as sometimes there aren't any/or enough. On the front I can't think of anything except the wheel width that would change it (except the front arms, but i assume all the "modern" chassis use the same parts).

I hope someone that has actually messed with these cars will clarify what the situation on width actually entails.

If there's a "cheater wing" I'm sure you have it!!!! lol

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Old 06-10-2011, 09:41 AM   #172
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I think the retro cars come with grooved rubber tires that are wider in the rear and the fronts might be different also but the front arms are wider also. I think someone called it a 130.5 when you add the narrow arms to the 103 qand then it is 180mm wide.

The tires that come in the kit are not a factor as they are all wrong. The rubber tires that come in the kit won't be the "good" rubber tires you will need to compete.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:48 AM   #173
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The GP1 class is aimed at more experienced racers. Competition electronics are permitted and it was felt that the cars should be as true to life/scale as possible. Therefore it was decided that only cars resembling modern F1 cars should be allowed. These are basically the Tamiya F104 and HPI F10; both of which have narrower track width, narrower tyres and larger wheels than the older cars, as in real life.

Stolen from a different wibsite.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:01 AM   #174
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Tamiya f104 pro


Tamiya f103 .

You can see the width of the rear tires is much wider on the 103.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #175
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F103 VS F104
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:22 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Sorry Lon II. I didn't see the thread here until long after I say the link to a 3Racing car on FB. Plus I missed the line about INDOOR. My bad...

Nope won't have a Tammy, you can have all the deals you find! ;-) I never have liked the t-plate or disk damper type suspension.

IF I ever get to Toledo in the winter, and you are actually running F1, I will beg to be allowed to run my 3Racing F109 narrowed to 180mm and on rubber tires. I'll pay double the entry fee and marshall twice per round, and promise I won't win!!! Like I have to promise not to win!! lol

Later,
Ned
I have great news for you Ned ! The F104X1 doesn't have disk damper type suspension. It has a Dampner tube! I know you are now searching the web over for a F104X1 but they are not out yet so you will have to wait till July to order yours.

Like I said before I'm sure any F1 car that shows up to race can race but won't be awarded any championship points which will not matter to a guy who is going to make 1 or maybe 2 races for the whole year. No extra entry fee or marshalling duties. lol
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:50 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Dasmopar View Post
I have great news for you Ned ! The F104X1 doesn't have disk damper type suspension. It has a Dampner tube! I know you are now searching the web over for a F104X1 but they are not out yet so you will have to wait till July to order yours.
Or you can get the Exotek chassis and eliminate the t-bar too.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:24 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
You might as well get the higher optioned kits. The shock looks to be about $35.00 and the wheels and tires are $28.00. Then you still have a Ferrari body like many (most?) will have. The diff and motor mounts add another $55.00. You still don't have all the goodies and have spent around $300.00!!
(For ref. the Pro is $250 and the AYTBR 1X is $280)

My only point, now, and from the beginning, is that the class needs to be more open. Spec classes are fine, but should be cheap and highly restricted. Opening the class up to all f104 varients that are 180mm wide creates a mess. FGP vs, graphite, plastic vs. aluminum, good shocks vs. cheap shocks etc. You may be correct that the other stuff doesn't really matter, but that won't be the preception. You might as well only allow the Ferrarri and call it FOIROC! Just paint 'em different weird colors like pink, purple, and pale yellow. ;-)

Please don't take offence to my replys, I just don't think the Toledo guys are seeing the whole picture. The rules allowing both a "realistic" and "performance" class solves many of the problems.

good racing,
Ned
All the graphite stuff is not needed for rubber tire, in fact it probably hurts performance. Also, the pro body is not the best because of the rear wing, which is small/low. The wings don't make a huge difference, but a lot of guys have noticed it's not as good. You may also take notice that only the black pro special comes with the aluminum motor mount, not the regular "blue" pro. You really have to get the black car to get all the aluminum stuff.

Not to mention any of these cars will need a set of tires for rubber on carpet, as the tamiya rubber is no good on carpet (pro cars come with foam, but we are talking rubber here). If racing on asphalt, a pair of the option rears is all you need for your Ferrari, and they can be had for under $10 a pair.

Again, i said you could be racing with the tires and the shock. The other stuff is nice but not 100% necessary. In fact one TCS F1 veteran told me he thought the plastic diff was better as it was lighter. Go figure...

Also, the Mclaren is the same kit, different body. A set of decals also does nicely to differentiate the cars.

As far as what these guys do, at this point it's up to them. I was just pointing out that you can get into the cars for a small sum, and be competitive.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:27 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Pan cars are pretty simple and narrowing the rear (if it is even necessary!) might just be removing some spacers. That might get complicated on the diff side as sometimes there aren't any/or enough. On the front I can't think of anything except the wheel width that would change it (except the front arms, but i assume all the "modern" chassis use the same parts).

I hope someone that has actually messed with these cars will clarify what the situation on width actually entails.

If there's a "cheater wing" I'm sure you have it!!!! lol

Ned
Wide car = 103 rims and tires, 103 front end. The tires have a greater offset and width. The axle/diff is exactly the same. 103 front end is wider.

Narrow= 104 rims and tires, 104 front end

You can actually make a narrow 103 or other "Tamiya base" car with the correct 104 parts.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:45 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
All the graphite stuff is not needed for rubber tire, in fact it probably hurts performance. Also, the pro body is not the best because of the rear wing, which is small/low. The wings don't make a huge difference, but a lot of guys have noticed it's not as good. You may also take notice that only the black pro special comes with the aluminum motor mount, not the regular "blue" pro. You really have to get the black car to get all the aluminum stuff.

Not to mention any of these cars will need a set of tires for rubber on carpet, as the tamiya rubber is no good on carpet (pro cars come with foam, but we are talking rubber here). If racing on asphalt, a pair of the option rears is all you need for your Ferrari, and they can be had for under $10 a pair.

Again, i said you could be racing with the tires and the shock. The other stuff is nice but not 100% necessary. In fact one TCS F1 veteran told me he thought the plastic diff was better as it was lighter. Go figure...

Also, the Mclaren is the same kit, different body. A set of decals also does nicely to differentiate the cars.

As far as what these guys do, at this point it's up to them. I was just pointing out that you can get into the cars for a small sum, and be competitive.
Your last line says it "As far as what these guys do, at this point it's up to them." I was jsut pointing out that you can get into these cars for consideribly less if you allow more options in equipment and less money would mean more entries.

Ned
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