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Old 12-01-2004, 02:16 PM   #1396
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All interesting responses. I can see both Darkseids and Robz's arguements.

To Darkseid I'd say... we've only seen and heard of how it responds in the hands of professional drivers. I'm holding my opinion of the car until I have one on the track, and have seen other drivers respond to how it handles for them. And I also agree we spend WAY to much time worrying about car designs...this one sucks, that one doesn't.... yada yada yada. But isn't discussion half the fun of this hobby?!?

And I'm sure it's been asked before, but I'll ask it again...... why do you think losi didn't go with dual belts down the center of the chassis, like an XRay? If they used smaller small diameter diff pulleys it might work. It might mean that you'd have to lead the pulleys with bearings at each end of the chassis, but it seems to me that would solve the suspension geometry issue that Robz mentioned.
I suppose I'm answering my own question here....but I guess that means that the belts would be more cramped, meaning more tension and drag.....thus a less effecient driveline.

And oh yeah, I'd agree with you Robz...I think the Xray has just about the best unsprung balance... but like Dark said, we're all to lazy to mess with saddle packs! lol
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Old 12-01-2004, 02:53 PM   #1397
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Old 12-01-2004, 09:13 PM   #1398
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartmen34
...we're all to lazy to mess with saddle packs! lol
What does that say about us all as racers!?!
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Old 12-02-2004, 06:24 AM   #1399
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I have seen many cars in person. The arms are short, yes.. but are long arms really necessary on ON ROAD cars? We are not jumping anymore...

the advantages to having the battery in the middle of the car FAR out weigh any disadvantages you can speculate about.

Think of it like this, on your XXXS, when you are looking at it from behind, on a table (as if checking rear camber).. push the left side of the car down, and lift the right.. as if the car was making a right turn. HOW MUCH did the battery raise? The battery, the heaviest part of the whole deal. Think of the force needed to lift that, and how far it must travel. Same goes when turning left, how far must that battery drop? How much force is needed to bring it back to center?

My XXXS has been weighed every way i can think of. Weight has been placed here, there... ect.. I always have more chassis rub on the battery side of the chassis. This to me says the car is off.

With the JRXS, the battery moves very little. This means weight is nearly constant.. this just stinks of consistancy.

After watching the new car in practice all last week (on carpet) and handling a few myself.. I think I can safely say that it is going to be better than the XXXS. This is 15 years RC experience, a 142 IQ and a long history of RC car design scrutiny speaking.

If you look closely at the car, it could have had longer arms- they made it this way for a reason!

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Old 12-02-2004, 06:49 AM   #1400
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Last edited by Robz; 12-15-2004 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:27 AM   #1401
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robz
They are some good points, i never said that it wouldnt go well, i said it will be very difficult to setup as small changes will make massive difference as it will be amplifide by such short arms.
This is a good thing. You want to beable to tell the differences when setting up the car.

I myself have seen this car on the track, I have smelted it touched it, licked it, but have not drove it. Just by watching the car on the track, through out the whole day, I can really see the difference in handling from other cars, and I will say this I did not see anything ILL handling about the car, Excpt for a few tired experiments i saw.

Commentary

My opinion is, some engineeres are arrogant, and lack using common since. Look at the space shuttle a few years back. If not for the arrogances of a few engineers, we would still have 7 astronauts and a spacecraft.
So for me, someone with an engineering degree, does not mean that an engineer knows the right way and the wrong way, but and experienced one that has designed many many R/C cars over the years, and have a track record to prove it by, such as the winning combination of engineeres at Team Losi.

My two cents
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:28 AM   #1402
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead3

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So for me, someone with an engineering degree, does not mean that an engineer knows the right way and the wrong way, but and experienced one that has designed many many R/C cars over the years, and have a track record to prove it by, such as the winning combination of engineeres at Team Losi.

My two cents
This is true. As an engineer for the past 15 years you will realize that what ultimately works to solve your problem is completely different than what you thought or originally designed. Build-Test-Fix, Build-Test-Fix. Common sense.

Anyway I am very impressed with Losi's engineering efforts. I'm still impressed that, twice, they were able to make a competative on road and off road vehicle with the same basic chassis and drivetrain.
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:16 AM   #1403
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Last edited by Robz; 12-15-2004 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:22 AM   #1404
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robz

Seems to be going well on carpet, but then in my head i would expect it to go well on high grip, flat surfaces. It seems mainly designed for US and nowhere else.

Lets wait and see hey!!
you mean there is racing on somthing other than carpet? And in other countries???
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:28 AM   #1405
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Last edited by Robz; 12-15-2004 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:32 AM   #1406
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All racing oriented touring cars are good, it's all in the setup and driving. I bet if you give a top ranked driver (lets say Mike Blackstock) an old FSR triple belt touring car and a "normal racer" a top notch car (X-ray, or TC4, etc..), Mike would kick butt. The difference is 1. The driver, 2. The setup, 3. Maintenace of equipment. Just pick a car you like and stick with it, worry about driving and you will make the podium.
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:30 AM   #1407
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I'm also going to school and am in the process of becoming a Mechanical Engineer (one and a half more years). I dont think the short arms on the car are a bad thing. It will make setup changes more drastic, but losi said themselves that this is not a beginners car. Serious racers should be able make adjustments on the car and get the changes they want out of it, this is why we have expensive setup stations, so we can measure the smallest changes in the setup of the suspension.

To me the short arms are a really good thing, shorter means stronger. And this has no direct effect on how the car will drive if it is setup properly by the racer.
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Old 12-02-2004, 12:25 PM   #1408
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DDesros...What about when you have 10 Mike Blackstocks, Josh Cyruls, Paul Lemiuexs on the stand.. Sure, all cars are good but when 10 of the best are racing, it comes down to the car.
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Old 12-02-2004, 01:43 PM   #1409
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Well for the car only racing two races under her belt(lol) and having 2 cars in the A Main at the Worlds and 5 cars in the main at the US Indoor Champs....I think she is gonna be a great car :-)
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:10 PM   #1410
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When should we expect the car to be out for the public?? Would be a nice X-mas gift

thanks,
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