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Old 10-06-2004, 09:16 PM   #616
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there is something about this new Losi car that amkes it look like its going to be a pain to work on
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:16 PM   #617
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Todd gave me Ryans setup after the Reedy race and I ran it at Tamiya in the KO race and that thing was dialed. Combine that with RC's talent, no wonder he walked with that race.
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:21 PM   #618
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Quote:
Originally posted by FW05R
there is something about this new Losi car that amkes it look like its going to be a pain to work on
Compared to the XXX-S...yes, but what other belt car or shaft car out there is easy to work on? They all require dissasembly to get to diffs..belts..shafts...etc.
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Old 10-06-2004, 10:33 PM   #619
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Hard to work on?

You can change the spur gear without dismantling half the car, heck, you could even rebuild the diff without taking it out of the bulkhead! How much easier do you want it?
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:17 PM   #620
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Yokomo SD is easy to work on. 2 screws and the diff is out.

Now about maintenance, is everyone waiting til they get to the track to do maintenance on their cars? Or do they do that at home and just tune the car at the track? Just curious.
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:30 AM   #621
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Wow, my Kyosho and HPI reference really got people going and I was just using them to make a point. My point is that those companies have the resources and I'm sure their engineers are good at what they do. Once in a while the engineers miss the mark, and its not always because of design, but rather a cross over or marketing decision or even cost decision. Molds aren't exactly the cheapest to produce and recovering those costs can take a lot of kits. Some times the design has to be compromised. The Losi XXX4 was definately a design based on cutting costs. Unlike the XX4, the XXX4 was intentionally designed to sahre parts and molds from the Touring Car. That's my food for thought, not a speculation that it will bomb.
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Old 10-07-2004, 02:01 AM   #622
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Default Maybe someone can explain to me about

molds. Everyone talks about molds being so exspensive to tool. For some reason, I can't believe they are that expensive to make. Can't a regular CNC computer lathe do this? I'm interested in the process.
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Old 10-07-2004, 02:36 AM   #623
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Default CF Plate or Composite Tub???

Making a Mold for a composite tub would be very expensive in the U.S. I believe it would cost TL $20-25K, or probably more. On the contrary after the mold is done the cost of production and material is relatively cheap. So, The Tub Chassis would be best to make a very high production volume. If TL decide to make 50,000 car, it only cost them $0.50 for the cost of the mold, plus the composite material--let's say $25. The total cost would be only $25.5

In contrast, making a CF Plate doesn't need any mold so there is no huge investment. So making a batch quantity will be relatively cheap. However, it is not very economical to make in larger quantity since the price of CF plate is quite expensive. I would imagine the cost of a CF Plate would be close to $50.00

The product life cycle of TL Touring car is considerably longer compare to other brand (except AE). So, TUB chassis would be better choice in term of product cost.

So, why TL decide to use CF plate??? Probably they think that the product life cycle of their car is too long??? Who know.



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Old 10-07-2004, 02:56 AM   #624
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Default Re: Maybe someone can explain to me about

Quote:
Originally posted by Nightbreed
molds. Everyone talks about molds being so exspensive to tool. For some reason, I can't believe they are that expensive to make. Can't a regular CNC computer lathe do this? I'm interested in the process.
I'll try to explain the production of this CF and Tub chassis.

CF Chassis
First of all, the designer design the layout of the chassis. Then, with the aid of a computer, the designer determine the cutouts, holes and etc. Send the finished CAD program to a CNC milling machine, which a blank CF plate already been set up. The machining time will depend on the CNC machine, but I would say it took 1 hour.

The designer can immediately use the new chassis for track trial. if the performance of chassis is not as expected, the designer change a few design, then run the new design on the CNC machine. Within 1 day, the designer will have a new chassis to test.

Composite Tub Chassis
The same thing happen, the designer design the layout of the chassis. But remember, the design of CF plate only 2-dimensional, while tub chassis required 3-dimensional design. It would need a very well trained engineer to design this kind of chassis. It would take the designer weeks to convert sketches and drawings to CAD file. Then the process of machining the Mold begin on the CNC machine. Again, the works required "true" 3 dimensional machining. The machining itself could take days. Basically, the designer creates mold which consist of Cores and Cavities. Ater the machining is finished, the Core and Cavities need to be assembled. After the assembly, then the injection process will begin.

If the result of the chassis is not as expected, the designer needs to rework the mold, or even make a new mold which take weeks and $$$.

That's why, prototype always using a CF Plate to determine component position, layout, geometry, and etc. Only after the designer satisfied with the chassis, then the designer began making the mold.

I hope this will explain....and pardon my english

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Old 10-07-2004, 04:33 AM   #625
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For those who really liked the xxx-s, i believe that hodge did say that it will be sold alongside the new TC. i believe it's probably like a sport racer with the xxx-s and pro level racer with the jrxs.
As for maintanence, i don't think a hard core racer will mind spending sometime to do maintanence after a race day if this design gives some clear advantage. Plus with such oversized pulleys and suspension rods right beneath it, it'll be hard to cover the belts and diffs up without limiting suspension movements and may be causing other troubles also.
Finally, as for cost of CF and moulds, yes moulds are cheaper to produce if the production numbers are high, but as losi 'will probably' pitch this as a expensive high end racer with less numbers sold than sport level TCs, perhaps it's cheaper to just go the CF way.
Although i do think that LOsi ought to come out with some official infos about release date/features soon or ppl in this forum will kill each other with all their speculations/discussions
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Old 10-07-2004, 04:34 AM   #626
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Very good resume, I will add to that that a molded part suffers from internal stresses during the cooling process. For this reason, you have to calculate the deflections before you create the mold in order to implement them into the mold (you mld a part that is not straight so that when it cools down, stresses will make it straight) and that is very complicated, requires a lot of time (the bigger and more complicated the part, the harder it is) and very very good engineers, and even though you will probably have to make 2 or 3 molds in order to have a satisfying part.
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:11 AM   #627
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Default Interesting....

Now all I need to know is it mold or mould?
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:22 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nightbreed
Now all I need to know is it mold or mould?
Depends where you come from, according to the Cambridge English Dictionary

Mould (UK) spelling, Mold (US) spelling

Clcik HERE
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:33 AM   #629
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haha, nevery realised mold and mould, used to mould as i live in AUs
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:36 AM   #630
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There are a lot of subtle differences between the English (British, and proper version, lol), and the English (American) language. A simple one is I spell Colour, Americans spell it Color.
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