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Old 10-06-2004, 03:19 PM   #601
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Ok, I'm bored at work too, so this here is my $0.02

I think this new car is a big marketing mistake on Losi's part, for a couple reasons.

Firstly, it is stealing sales of the XXX-s already, even though it is not yet available, and won't be for an un-determined amount of time. Woud any serious racer invest in a XXX-S at the moment ?

Secondly, the fact it is a new and totally different car, as opposed to an evolution of the XXX-S, means that existing Losi drivers are forced to decide whether to switch to an entirely new car, and will therefore look at ALL of the options available, not just the JRXS.

It may be a great Touring car, let's hope so because I don't think Losi will be selling many racing touring cars until it starts shipping.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:40 PM   #602
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Unfortunately its a problem with any new products in any field. Hence why Team Assoicated for instance and Losi try to keep their new cars hushed up until very close to the release date to maintain older kit sales.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:51 PM   #603
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricF
Did you read what you wrote? Or should I say do you really believe what you wrote?

Maybe we should just call you mister 'button pusher'. Cause saying things like that you must just be trying to instigate something.
Please tell me what I've said that isn't true. The purpose of my post wasn't to instigate, although I can see how Kyosho diehards wouldn't agree. I simply stated my argument, and then backed it up by citing a recent example of Kyosho trying to compete in a class dominated by Losi and AE. If you call that instigating, well...

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Old 10-06-2004, 04:01 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newdaddy

Firstly, it is stealing sales of the XXX-s already, even though it is not yet available, and won't be for an un-determined amount of time. Woud any serious racer invest in a XXX-S at the moment ?

Secondly, the fact it is a new and totally different car, as opposed to an evolution of the XXX-S, means that existing Losi drivers are forced to decide whether to switch to an entirely new car, and will therefore look at ALL of the options available, not just the JRXS.
I agree with you on the point that the 'leak' of information on the JRXS is probably slowing sales of the XXX-S a LITTLE BIT. Keep in mind, the people on this, and other boards, are really the 'Lunatic Fringe' as many sports radio hosts would say. We're the minority - the guys who are so into racing that we spend time reading (and posting) about RC on the internet. However, as I've said before, we do not comprise the bulk of the RC sales in the US. Even if you look at the the entire 'Die Hard' racer population as a whole, maybe 50% really surf the message boards looking for info on the newest products and the chances are that most of that 50% already have a sedan that they're relatively happy with. Along those lines, it's fair to reason that new XXX-S sales, among the group aware of the release of the JRXS, were probably tailing off a bit to begin with, and in essence, Losi has given up very little to create a very big buzz. When you look at the numbers, and the true marketing value of the small fraction of sales lost to create this type of 'Bootstrap Buzz,' you see a very different picture - one that looks pretty good for Losi's Marketing Dept.

Also, let's not forget that the 'Different Cars For Different Tracks' theology is not entirely unheard of. While my guess is that the new car will be preferrable everywhere, there's always the possiblility that the XXX-S works better on certain types of tracks than does the JRXS, and Losi wouldn't hesitate to use that fact in a Tamiya-esque marketing strategy, I'm sure. This rings even more true on the heels of the announcement of their new RTR-2, or whatever they've called it, which shows they will still support the XXX-S platform.

-G

Last edited by Griffin; 10-06-2004 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:03 PM   #605
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I think, unless offered something they couldn't refuse, any serious racer wanting to buy a car round the time of the worlds, will wait to see what falls from the R+D tree of each company, and the shrewd will be happy with last years model at rock bottom prices.

I think, with the XXX4, I think they kinda come to an end in that design line to be honest, and would be harder to sell to a racer, something new(ish), but then, how do you alter a moulded chassis, you have to re-engineer it, and then you might as well go the whole hog and build a new car. I also think that the moulded chassis had weak spots caused by the actual process of injecting the plastic into the mould, maybe causes stress areas, at least with Carbon Fibre, it may not be as ultimately stiff as the tub, but it will be exactly the same from kit to kit.

Also, guessing, they could then bring out different thickness chassis, making the car more flexible/stiffer than the original, for differing track surfaces. All very exciting, but think of the hop-ups they could be selling there!!!

I guess really, we got to wait to see how things go at the worlds, but wouldn't it be funny if a TC3 or XXXS G+ TQ'd
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:23 PM   #606
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newdaddy
Firstly, it is stealing sales of the XXX-s already, even though it is not yet available, and won't be for an un-determined amount of time. Woud any serious racer invest in a XXX-S at the moment ?

Secondly, the fact it is a new and totally different car, as opposed to an evolution of the XXX-S, means that existing Losi drivers are forced to decide whether to switch to an entirely new car, and will therefore look at ALL of the options available, not just the JRXS.
I understand your POV on that, but i would have to disagree. I dont think that it will be stealing any sales from the XXX-S at the moment, mainly because the XXX-S RTR's see the majority of the sales, at least they did when i was working at the carpet track here. I can agree with your point on the serious racers investing in a XXX-S right now, but any (or most) serious racers are up to date on what is going on, and know that the new car is coming anyways. I think that most die hard TL serious racers have already purchased a G+, and probably are looking forward to the release of a new car for the winter season.

I also dont consider this a totally different car as opposed to the evolution of the xxx-s. I'm sure the design team had spent many hours re-vamping the xxx-s and ended up utilizing the components in the new car for one reason or another (probably as a noticed improvement). The new car had to evolve from somewhere... I also see your point about driving current xxx-s owners towards other options, but i think that it opens the door for anyone ever interested in the xxx-s to take a good hard look at what Losi will be offering in the future.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:24 PM   #607
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Let alone if one of those cars won? Marketing snafu.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:48 PM   #608
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If I am remembering right, Losi said the XXX-4 G+ was going to originally be out in December when it was being released. It came out in November. So I believe it's closer than two months away, based on past history.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:54 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lars Johnson
I understand your POV on that, but i would have to disagree. I dont think that it will be stealing any sales from the XXX-S at the moment, mainly because the XXX-S RTR's see the majority of the sales, at least they did when i was working at the carpet track here. I can agree with your point on the serious racers investing in a XXX-S right now, but any (or most) serious racers are up to date on what is going on, and know that the new car is coming anyways. I think that most die hard TL serious racers have already purchased a G+, and probably are looking forward to the release of a new car for the winter season.

I also dont consider this a totally different car as opposed to the evolution of the xxx-s. I'm sure the design team had spent many hours re-vamping the xxx-s and ended up utilizing the components in the new car for one reason or another (probably as a noticed improvement). The new car had to evolve from somewhere... I also see your point about driving current xxx-s owners towards other options, but i think that it opens the door for anyone ever interested in the xxx-s to take a good hard look at what Losi will be offering in the future.
You both make good points.
In my opinion, the market value of a XXX-S kit will go down, and the used kits will be oversupplied and the demand will be less. Since the new car is coming out, TL will have a hard time selling any G+ kits, unless there is a large amount of impatient touring drivers. I know, I wouldn't buy a new XXX-S with a new kit on the horizon and a flood of TL's on the used market.

Being that the car has two exposed belts, it will be in the same situation as X-Ray. Only the elite drivers will buy this kit, because the maintence level needed for two belt designs. In another POV TL might increase sales if the price of a XXX-S is lowered dramatically, because that gives the beginners a very competitive kit, for a inexpensive price.
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:14 PM   #610
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Losi would have just made an upgrade CF chassis for those who want a lighter XXX-S. The XXX-S would be lighter and the batteries would be closer to the center chassis line. That would be two big improvements. I can't believe the one belt R&D is exhausted. I have to say I won't be back to Losi for some time. A tub chassis would be a brick.

It's just me talking, but I wanted a XXX-S that was improved. A new front shock tower, better hinge pins that won't bind, and the list goes on. It's great to look at something different, but I just wanted a better XXX-S. I guess I'm in the minority. Losi would be smart to upgrade the XXX-S as I'm sure it will still be popular. I guess a new design = marketing hype.

Last edited by Nightbreed; 10-06-2004 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:32 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally posted by mwcet8k
-Mr. Button Pusher
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:42 PM   #612
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knowing a few Losi drivers I am led to believe that there are several inherent issues with the XXXS that required a complete re-design. You should see all the different mods they have done to the chassis and custom suspension bits added to try to over come some of its negative handling characteristics of the XXXs and with the onslaught of several new cars this year by other manufacturers, the had to do something to make their drivers life easier... development of another tub chasses could mean too costly to risk any new problems so it is much easier to make the chassis in CF and it allows further development for chassis components if required to improve the car. It is fact that the XXX-s is begining toshow its age even though it is a great car...
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Old 10-06-2004, 08:25 PM   #613
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Todd!!!!--Quick you guys have got to start releasing the new car before all of us in this forum try to kill each other over speculation!!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!J/K LMAO

Oh and I preordered mine today as well. I told my LHS that as soon as she had a # or I got a # or Horizon called and mentioned the release date that " I gosta have one fast!"

Later guys
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Old 10-06-2004, 08:52 PM   #614
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Default sonneteer, that's harsh.

I always thought it was a great handling car. I guess I'm no pro driver but regardless. I'm curious, what handling problems were some of the pro drivers having that much trouble? Other than drilling some holes in the front shock tower, filing some blocks, changing shocks, what was the problem? Maybe BWI can make a chassis for it.
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:14 PM   #615
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I never had an issue with my XXX-SG+.
BTW Ryan Cavalieri won the open class at the Reedy Touring Car Race of Champions with a pretty stock looking car. Except for the bk bones. Wonder if he had any issues...
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