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Old 01-18-2012, 11:15 AM   #166
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I was in my room this morning getting ready for the day when I came to a realization re: events like the Snowbird Nationals (although I think its the only electric onroad race that uses bump ups)...how would an event like that be scored?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:35 AM   #167
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I took all the suggestions from the last couple pages and turned it into this "skeleton" which can be built on with necessary class specifics, race schedules, etc:

Skeleton for points system
Classes:
Touring Car
17.5
13.5
Modified
Vintage Trans-Am (25.5)
Pan Car
12th Scale
17.5
13.5
Modified
10th Scale
World GT
Formula 1
Points: (Based on 50%+1 entrants in each class)
A Main:
1st Place-25 points
2nd Place- 20 points
3rd Place- 15 points
4th Place- 10 points
5th Place- 5 points
6th Place- 4 points
7th Place- 3 points
8th Place- 2 points
9th Place- 1 point
10th Place- 1 point
B Main and Lower:
1st Place- 10 points
2nd Place- 9 points
3rd Place- 8 points
4th Place- 7 points
5th Place- 6 points
6th Place- 5 points
7th Place- 4 points
8th Place- 3 points
9th Place- 2 points
10th Place- 1 point

(note: if the main does not have 50%+1 minimum no points are awarded)
Bonus Points:
Overall TQ: 1 point
Fastest Lap: 1 point
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #168
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By the way I looked up all the classes I listed in my "skeleton" for both the carpet and paved on-road nationals and here is what I found

Carpet Nationals

World GT 37 racers
12th 13.5 35 racers
12th 17.5 27 racers
12th Mod 13 racers
Touring 17.5 39 racers
Touring 13.5 not offered
Touring Mod 26 racers
F1 not offered
Vintage Trans-Am not offered

Paved Nationals

Touring 17.5 47 racers
Touring 13.5 31 racers
Touring Mod 21 racers
Vintage Trans-Am 7 racers
World GT 8 racers
12th 17.5 not offered
12th 13.5 17 racers
12th Mod not offered
F1 not offered
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:57 PM   #169
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F1 not offered ?If you only knew the numbers that have been coming in the US for the last year. But forget that for now. Considering the distance involved from one coast to another would cost a fortune. Why not take the idea of the MX series. East coast series and westcoast.You can have a champion in each. If, and I mean "IF" someone could get it together let the top X numbers duke it out in middle ground like Arkansas or any track in the middle that could hold the event. Then you would have a national champion. Just a thought.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:55 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by mxrich View Post
F1 not offered ?If you only knew the numbers that have been coming in the US for the last year. But forget that for now. Considering the distance involved from one coast to another would cost a fortune. Why not take the idea of the MX series. East coast series and westcoast.You can have a champion in each. If, and I mean "IF" someone could get it together let the top X numbers duke it out in middle ground like Arkansas or any track in the middle that could hold the event. Then you would have a national champion. Just a thought.
I was referring to it not being offered at the ROAR nationals last year
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #171
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Over on HobbyTalk the point was brought up (and is a valid point) about the amount of work involved with with loading all the points and what not. If I can get a hold of miller tyme and talk to him about the midwest series I do hope to get some insight that may help in that area
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:28 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Over on HobbyTalk the point was brought up (and is a valid point) about the amount of work involved with with loading all the points and what not. If I can get a hold of miller tyme and talk to him about the midwest series I do hope to get some insight that may help in that area
You are blurring the line between a national points system…and a national point series. A National points system would be a way to rank racers in each class based off their local race performance in conjunction with other racers across the country in the same classes…which is much harder to accomplish. A National point series would be where you pick a select number of races and you award points based of the results. So which one of the two are you looking to get done?

Having ran a regional race series for 8 years the points is the easiest thing to get done. Getting all the races in order and having them all run the same class structure is the bigger issue. If you are running the series you can dictate what classes are raced for your series. If you are going to use multiple races that you have no control over what classes are raced or what the rules are ie…Snowbirds…IIC…ROAR Nats…you will be in some trouble getting all the points to line up evenly as each race doesn’t follow the same rules….this is your biggest obstacle in a national point series.

The points are simple….

100 for first….99 for second….98 for third and so on….with the TQ of each event getting 1 bonus point. Its very simple to figure them out this way…and not many classes will have more than 100 racers in them at any given time. The point structure you are talking about is way too complex….use the K.I.S.S method.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:42 PM   #173
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I was thinking more along the lines of a point system. I do agree with the fact that not every track runs every class the exact same way. Thats why when I came up with the skeleton I didnt go into all the crazy specifics of blinky vs non-blinky and what not. I think the original crux of the discussion way back in 04 was to create a national ranking system and set qualifying for nationals off of that (or something along that line)
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #174
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bumping this up because its an idea that can be pulled off (even if its started on a smaller scale integrating with something like the Grand Slam series)
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:02 AM   #175
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Still unclear how the results will be used? For example, if Racer X at track Y gets to race 3 times a week, given sufficient turnout, he could get 75 points a week, racing against a bunch of other no-name racers. Meanwhile, Racer A races at another track once a week (against current and past National champs), finishes 5th, and gets 5 points. Exactly how does ROAR use these results to compare racers and qualify them for the Nationals? Is the guy with more points "better"?

At least with something like a USGA golf handicap, the difficulty of the course is taken into account. How would your proposed points system handle something like this?
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:33 AM   #176
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I cant remember when it was but I think somebody had posted a system that includes a multiplier for factoring the number of entries in a given class. As for the quality of the field (the no name racers vs National Champions), that is a good question. I know in full scale endurance racing they have a system (if Im remembering it correctly) of Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze for racers and something along that line could be used and there could be a weighted mathematical formula (Im not great at math beyond geometry so maybe you could come up with that CarbonJoe) that could add bonus points for racers who compete "above their classification" or something like that
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:23 AM   #177
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Yea Joe, get off your azz and figure this out for us.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
I cant remember when it was but I think somebody had posted a system that includes a multiplier for factoring the number of entries in a given class. As for the quality of the field (the no name racers vs National Champions), that is a good question. I know in full scale endurance racing they have a system (if Im remembering it correctly) of Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze for racers and something along that line could be used and there could be a weighted mathematical formula (Im not great at math beyond geometry so maybe you could come up with that CarbonJoe) that could add bonus points for racers who compete "above their classification" or something like that
Still doesn't help with the question.

Racer X has a bunch of boobs that he races against and wins constantly.
Racer A has a bunch of real racers that he races against and come in mid-pack.

What's the difference? Let's assume fairly equal skill level and equal turnouts - Racer X will have a LOT more points than will Racer A.

In fact, everyone at Racer B's "home" will have a lot fewer points than will Racer A.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:30 PM   #179
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Still doesn't help with the question.

Racer X has a bunch of boobs that he races against and wins constantly.
Racer A has a bunch of real racers that he races against and come in mid-pack.

What's the difference? Let's assume fairly equal skill level and equal turnouts - Racer X will have a LOT more points than will Racer A.

In fact, everyone at Racer B's "home" will have a lot fewer points than will Racer A.
+1
Ive recently started using vrc and the overall concept of ranking is interesting but overall flawed if you don't race enough.

I think what we really need is for large national/international and regional roar races to count for something in this larger scheme for any of this to work. With that said, I think the last roar regional I went to was in 2009. Heck, if the Midwest grand slam wasn't would far away id prefer to run those races -- some of the best competition in the USA...
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:50 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Heck, if the Midwest grand slam wasn't would far away id prefer to run those races -- some of the best competition in the USA...
You got that right!
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