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Old 10-18-2007, 03:07 PM   #5431
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WOW!

So, let's start at the begining... it looks like you guys have hit on the 1/12 gearing answers yourselves! Cookie's rollouts look acceptable to me. Always monitor the ESC and motor temps!!
Steve,

With the Novak GTX that I'm running, what temperature range am I looking to be in when I exit the 5min practice or main for that matter? This is assuming I'm using a 27 - Turn. Do you recommend a fan for the GTX heat sink or is that not needed with a 27-turn?

Thank you very much
Jeff
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:31 PM   #5432
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Hey guys,

About the stock motor with bearings issue... I'm really not sure how much that would help... it's an interesting question ... I'm sure someone with a good dyno could do the test rather easily.



Jeff,

Really it's hard to say what your heatsink temp should be on a GTX with a stock motor, but I would say that it's going to be around 100 if that. I don't really think you would need a fan to help cool down the ESC... but cooling never hurts.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:57 PM   #5433
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As far as the idea of always having to "up the bar" so to speak when another manufacture comes out with a competing product such as an LRP or Orion 10.5 there is really only so much one can do to change the power output of the motor for a given size. The power band can be shifted around and this in turn effects the drivability of the motor... so there become points of diminishing returns at the expense of other factors which make for a "good motor"
Is this limit to performance potential something that's different for brushless compared with brushed? Because we've lived through huge changes in brushed motor performance "for a given size". Just think about the history of 24 degree stock motors. I still have an old Yokomo 24 degree stock motor powering my Twister comm lathe. I don't think it would be very competitive with a CO27. The CO27 doesn't just have a different power band, it is a more powerful motor in all respects relative to the Yokomo 24. Yet both were built to the same rules (except for the removable endbell).

If this performance limit is inherent to brushless, can you explain why? I'd think that there would be room to change the distribution of iron in the stator, or the winding pattern, or the rotor material, or even the programming in the speed control in ways that would increase overall performance.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:15 PM   #5434
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Well, everything in the motor design is give and take.

I think the increase you saw in brushed motor design was largely in part due to improvement in permenant magnet technology and "tricks" with the armature laminations: If you remove laminations you reduce the rotating mass of the armature which can increase performance... to a certain point... if you shorten the laminations the actual wire length becomes shorter... increasing performance to a certain point. Holes being placed in the laminations to effectively increase the timing... All that and I haven't even touched on the brushes themselves!

I'm not saying there isn't any room for improvement in current brushless designs, it's just really all about juggling all the variables and finding a better combination within the given rules.

Every change that you make will have a positive and a negative effect... the trick is to try to maximise what you have.
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:53 PM   #5435
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I don't see too much thanks. So thank you again for spreading your knowledge.
One more question if you don't mind.

What range of motor temps would I like to be in for a stock 27-Turn motor, after a race/practice? Question that relates to the one above. How many questions can I ask again Steve? Damn thats another lol.

How do you judge the proper gearing for your touring car? Roll-out then, by user preference and motor temps to confirm?

Thanks again!!

Jeff
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:21 AM   #5436
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Feigao copied your solder tabs. :-O

http://www.redrc.net/2007/10/cs-elec...ushless-motor/
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:05 AM   #5437
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Steve,

I noticed the motor bearing plate on my EX brushless motor looks different from the one on my old SS5800 (one was flat and one had a slight bulge for the bearing). Are they interchangeable? Will the motor bearing plate/sintered rotor upgrade package that works for the SS5800 also work for the EX?

Thanks.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:06 AM   #5438
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Steve,

On the 13.5 brushless motors, what is the correct way to reset the timing to factory stock,

I was told that you retard the timing fully (by moving the timing ring all the way clockwise while looking at the back of the motor) and move it counter clockwise about 1mm... is this correct?
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:13 AM   #5439
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A quick search of this thread turned this post by Steve up:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...postcount=5020

It contains pictures of stock, advanced and retarded timing...
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:16 AM   #5440
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awesome, thank you very much

ops:
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:36 AM   #5441
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Jeff,

It's really been a while but I would say under 200 degrees F... maybe some stock motor afficienados can give you a better idea...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgrios View Post
I don't see too much thanks. So thank you again for spreading your knowledge.
One more question if you don't mind.

What range of motor temps would I like to be in for a stock 27-Turn motor, after a race/practice? Question that relates to the one above. How many questions can I ask again Steve? Damn thats another lol.

How do you judge the proper gearing for your touring car? Roll-out then, by user preference and motor temps to confirm?

Thanks again!!

Jeff
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:37 AM   #5442
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Yeah, I saw those a while back... It's awesome doing R&D for the rest of the manufacturers out there

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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Feigao copied your solder tabs. :-O

http://www.redrc.net/2007/10/cs-elec...ushless-motor/
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:39 AM   #5443
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Sim,

You're right that there has been a change in the front endbells from the original SS series to the EX series. They are interchangable except for the fact that you will need different shimming on that side of the motor... the EX series motors come with a shorter brass spacer than the original SS series motors.

The 5923 sintered rotor/endbell upgrade kit will fit your EX motor just fine though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sim600 View Post
Steve,

I noticed the motor bearing plate on my EX brushless motor looks different from the one on my old SS5800 (one was flat and one had a slight bulge for the bearing). Are they interchangeable? Will the motor bearing plate/sintered rotor upgrade package that works for the SS5800 also work for the EX?

Thanks.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:46 PM   #5444
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Don't forget to touch my motor
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:39 PM   #5445
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what is the company that makes the brushless motors that you guys have in the novak motors any help is appriciated
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