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Old 04-20-2011, 04:00 PM   #121
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We are good with a NT stock class. We all agree stock needs to be slower and even. We do not think this will necessarily provide the even everyone is looking for and we expect to smell a few motors in the mains like the old days. However we are a lot closer than we use to be in the magic motor and battery era.

Most tracks need a sportsman or novice class. Stock is not a beginner class, it is a very competitive class and is a skill just like any other to carry speed and drive smooth compared to point and shoot. It is considered a drivers class and the most competitive and deepest at many tracks, not a RTR entry point for newcomers.

We also need a middle class where the majority of people fall. Not slow and not whoa fast and guaranteed to need some spare parts. Fast enough that equipment does not really decide the race and you actually have to set it up well and drive it to win. Boost technologies are a great equalizer in that regard.

I do not understand the argument that it is a needed skill to be able to drive a light switch mod motor. The point is to go faster around the track and more people can handle the mild mod rip with the mod top speed of a boosted setup. It makes sense to learn to handle the mod speeds before you try to tackle full mod acceleration. Boosted classes are the best training ground for mod, and as mentioned some are finding they can go as fast and be more consistent with a lot less motor that is boosted. Does mod have to be hard to drive and hard on all your equipment or is the point lower lap times? Do we need a middle stock class, or a middle class that is mild mod to challenge the more adventurous. We are always trying to push people to mod so the less talented have a chance to win something and this is a mod class people can handle.

This hard to setup thing is crazy. A few seconds to set onboard boosted and non boosted profiles that are good enough for most are on most controllers. A few minutes if you want to tweak things a little more with a programmer. Do any of you ‘this is hard’ guys own a cel phone? You appear to have computers…

So the real question is do we allow existing esc’s with spec mode? Do we at least allow people a choice and the value of being able to move up as their skills improve?

The other option is to ban almost all existing esc’s and require everyone to buy new systems.

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Old 04-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Nilks View Post
I think the main problem here, is that some tracks are big enough to handle both 17.5T boosted and modified, and other tracks are not, as they are too small and because of that, 17.5T boosted run the same laptimes.
Yes this is the issue...thats why IMHO to please everyone there would need to be two sets of rules....one for Tracks that are under 95ft long(21.5 non boost, 17.5 non boost and Mod) this is for Sedan BTW....12th scale is fine the way it is....and for tracks longer then 100ft(17.5 non boost, 17.5 boosted and mod). Then the lowest motor in each is for newbies or racers who cant handle the next class....then there is the middle class and then the mod class for the few that want to race this.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:05 PM   #123
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ill say this for those people who think boosted has made racing cost more i would like to disagree. i for one the last year i ran a non boosted esc i went through 5 motors that season looking for that little bit of an edge over the other guy. this year running boosted i have the same motors in my car i did at the start because i can tune it to get that little edge. just like if you know how to tune a brushed motor back in the day. racing is all about finding that little edge the next guy doesnt have! if it wasnt way whould anyone do it. if you want a spec form of racing then run vta!

at the end of the day you take away boosted racing and the fast guys are still going to find a way to be faster.
1. find the speedo with the best fets that will run the motor cooler.
2. run a better wire/connecter with less resistance
3. motor dyno that reads how fast the sensor in the motor responds
4. motors with the best gauss reading
5. the "god battery pack"
6. oh heres the kicker a car that handles and is drivable! (im told this one helps every time)

as its been stated time and time again! the fast guys will always be fast as there the one who truly try to be. and the slow guys will find a excuse as to why they lost every time. and at the end of the day it will be a mistake they did that lost it for them.

there is a place for every type of racing!

and if you are just getting into carpet racing and you are starting with 12th as the class to start in yea sure it looks like they handle good all the time. dont kid yourself they are a wicked little car if not setup just right. and motor and battery and speed control settings are even more of a issue in that class!
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:41 PM   #124
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Boost isn't dead.. the horse is. Now put down your sticks and go race.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #125
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Blinky non-blinky, I really don't care. just want my track to stay open.
that sums up this whole thread to me
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:01 PM   #126
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If you are a noob and you enter the stock class expecting to be competetive from the beginning then you are living in a fantasy world.
Novice class has been and is for the beginer NOT stock class.Stock class is where us independents and unsponsered drivers perfect our skills to try and be pro drivers.Limiting the stock class shouldn't be about running the slowest set up that there is.Blinky mode should not be a rule for stock.
How many of you racing today remember the years of battery zappers,computerized motor dyno's,cell matchers, and the like.
The cost hasn't changed just the technology.The Genie is out of the bottle and to try and put in back in WILL kill the hobby more than adapting to it.
Running 17.5 blinky isn't the slowest setup there is. Did anybody here suggest running silver cans or 25.5? I think those might be a tad slower. Don't let huge exaggerations get in the way of a good arguement.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:11 PM   #127
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Running 17.5 blinky isn't the slowest setup there is. Did anybody here suggest running silver cans or 25.5? I think those might be a tad slower. Don't let huge exaggerations get in the way of a good arguement.
+1
Hairy do you ever post anything of use or is it all just cynical rants ? We kind of get your point now so maybe you could back off.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:14 PM   #128
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+1
Hairy do you ever post anything of use or is it all just cynical rants ? We kind of get your point now so maybe you could back off.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:16 PM   #129
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While it is true that 1/8 is limited to .21, people would still run .21 even if there were no limit. In Denmark we have no limits on motor in truggy, and everyone are still using .21, as it has plenty of power and good fuel economy. O.S. are coming out with a .19 motor, which I believe will get popular.
Plus, nitro allows the use of different carb inserts, pipes, big $$$ modified engines, etc, all which effect power and runtime, in order to give them a performance advantage. It is the nitro equivalent of programmable ESCs. Still don't hear them crying that much.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #130
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Plus, nitro allows the use of different carb inserts, pipes, big $$$ modified engines, etc, all which effect power and runtime, in order to give them a performance advantage. It is the nitro equivalent of programmable ESCs. Still don't hear them crying that much.
All this because it is 25x harder to break an 1/8 buggy than it is to break a TC or 12th scale.

Limited traction and bumpy tracks are the great equalizer here.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:27 PM   #131
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I just bought a dyno - thanks ROAR!
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:56 PM   #132
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All this because it is 25x harder to break an 1/8 buggy than it is to break a TC or 12th scale.

Limited traction and bumpy tracks are the great equalizer here.
Thank you for saying this. Thank you.

The opposite reasons are why 1/8 On Road is a pretty exclusive club ($$). But they also know that going in
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:00 PM   #133
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If it bothers you that much don't race.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:00 PM   #134
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All this because it is 25x harder to break an 1/8 buggy than it is to break a TC or 12th scale.

Limited traction and bumpy tracks are the great equalizer here.
Please don’t use Logic…..sensationalism and falsehoods are all we need….they alone will fix everything.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #135
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If it bothers you that much don't race.
im not bothered -- just now wasting $$ on equipment i didn't need in the 'turbo' days. i don't really see myself stop racing -- i have the addiction. what i won't let happen is myself getting walked down the straightaway. that is just not happening.

there is a lot of ways to make expensive toys (dynos) like this unnecessary -- but the simplest way is to spec motors too -- like ETS did. IIC did the right thing when they introduced brushless a few years ago -- hand out motors. I thought that was a relatively fair playing ground. it was even better the second year where a brand new motor was introduced for the Amateur class -- the Speed Passion V3 -- that no one was able to practice with it before. I did pretty well that year.
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