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Old 04-20-2011, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
17.5 boosted is too fast for the beginner and/or avg racer to run on a weekly basis on indoor carpet tracks in the USA with boards as barriers.

All it results in is broken parts frustration and eventually quitting the hobby.

Slower classes are necessary. 17.5 boosted is faster than 19 turn was 4 years ago.
In TC, I totally agree. 12th scale, not so much. JMO.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:31 AM
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OK so you know what I think and this is coming straight from someone wanting to start on road and coming from off road. I have actually started but just beginning.

I want to run a sedan as a beginner, not have to run a 21.5 GT class. I want to start with all the same gear that I can grow into. I do not want to have to learn in 21.5 GT and then step up to 17.5 and have to buy a new motor and new bodies.

The problem is this, at least at my track. There is no true beginner 17.5 class. The 17.5 n/t guys are sponsored drivers and are sickly fast. Boost and non-boost are all great. It is the chance to work your way up to mod and I think that should be the goal.

There needs to be better regulations on who goes in what class. For me I think 17.5 n/t should be for beginners. They get the realistic TC look, they can grow into there gear without buying new stuff when they want to step up to 17.5 timing. Then I think you go from there.

That is my $.02.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
In TC, I totally agree. 12th scale, not so much. JMO.
I'm with you buddy. 17.5 blinky 12th scale is not very exciting.

I never ran 13.5 blinky 12th scale but I'm guessing its going to be similar speeds of 17.5 boosted.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I'm with you buddy. 17.5 blinky 12th scale is not very exciting.

I never ran 13.5 blinky 12th scale but I'm guessing its going to be similar speeds of 17.5 boosted.
I actually tried 13.5 blinky this weekend in 12th scale and it wasnt that far off of 13.5 open except for down the straights. I only ran it one time but was only about .2 quicker with boosted than I was blinky. It was a lot more driveable in the infield of the track too. I dont know if I had the gear even close either as it was just a controlled practice run where I didnt have time to change the spur for boosted.

EA
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:48 AM
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TC:
Mod, 17.5T Boosted, 17.5T no boost.

Now there you have something for everyone. Keeping the same motor in boost/no-boost means you don't need so buy new motors when going up. And many ESC's today can handle both blinky and boosted, so you don't need new ESC either.

And the speeds are perfect. 17.5T Blinky are fast enough on indoor tracks. 17.5T boosted are for the better drivers or drivers that just want more speed. And modified for the insane

I think 17.5T boosted is the perfect middle class, between blinky and mod.

But I will like to mention, that on some tracks you can actually pull same laptimes in 17.5T boosted as modified. That is the case at my hometrack. It is too small to use all the mod powers, and we drive identical laptimes in modified and boosted.

In those cases, you could just have mod and blinky. But I think the general rules should be the 3 classes I mentioned earlier.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:53 AM
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Blinky classes are necessary for any type of electric discipline to survive on or off road.

The "slowest" class at my local track when I picked 1/12 back up was 17.5 with boost being allowed. If I was a complete beginner (which I looked like anyway) I would have sold my equipment after the first two races trying to figure out what I needed to do to keep up let alone win. Had it not been for a few very helpful fast guys I would have been done anyway.

Now we have a 17.5 "Cirtix" (non-boost), 13.5 w/boost and mod classes. I jumped from 17.5 to Mod and now can focus on my driving rather than my programming and tire management/gearing to make sure my timing stays where it was programmed to be.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I'm with you buddy. 17.5 blinky 12th scale is not very exciting.

I never ran 13.5 blinky 12th scale but I'm guessing its going to be similar speeds of 17.5 boosted.
it would be cool as a VTA verison of 12th, with older/realistic shells.

Otherwise, no 12th should not be a slower/"boring" class. Pretty much either you can wheel them or you can't.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Nilks View Post
TC:
Mod, 17.5T Boosted, 17.5T no boost.

Now there you have something for everyone. Keeping the same motor in boost/no-boost means you don't need so buy new motors when going up. And many ESC's today can handle both blinky and boosted, so you don't need new ESC either.

And the speeds are perfect. 17.5T Blinky are fast enough on indoor tracks. 17.5T boosted are for the better drivers or drivers that just want more speed. And modified for the insane

I think 17.5T boosted is the perfect middle class, between blinky and mod.
Seems fair enough. There are guys that get into the super-fine tuning, 17.5 Boosted makes sense and it is obviously a stepping stone for guys moving into mod (or just enjoying the "tuning war"). 17.5 non is easier to deal with and better for the newer guys. Mod is mod. Thankfully there doesn't seem to be a lot of fighting over that.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
it would be cool as a VTA verison of 12th, with older/realistic shells.

Otherwise, no 12th should not be a slower/"boring" class. Pretty much either you can wheel them or you can't.
I agree but there is a good counter argument. If you are good enough to get a boosted 13.5 around competitively, you are good enough for mod.

While I hate blinky, I am quite hopeful that this will help push more people towards running mod.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nilks View Post
TC:
Mod, 17.5T Boosted, 17.5T no boost.........I think 17.5T boosted is the perfect middle class, between blinky and mod.
I disagree. 17.5 boosted is plenty fast, but soft enough on the bottom that you can be really aggressive with the throttle...

The intermediate class needs to introduce the art of smooth throttle control and bridge the gap between the slowest and fastest class.

13.5 non-ramping fits the bill better than 17.5 boosted.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
I agree but there is a good counter argument. If you are good enough to get a boosted 13.5 around competitively, you are good enough for mod.

While I hate blinky, I am quite hopeful that this will help push more people towards running mod.
I'm with you there. I started RC racing mid-late 80's (off-road), and it was very simple- you had fixed-can stock (reasonably fast but controlled) and MOD. This was "the show" and it was all about dialing in the right wind/timing/other motor and esc tuning. Of course these are different times, but it's a relevant example. Mod is fast regardless of how much you play with the parameters. I know for myself at least, I don't want to have laptops/smartphones/tuning cards whatever constantly hooked up to my esc (exaggeration, I know) to dial it in. My local track is going to run non-boosted 17.5, I'm fine with that. If I was in a situation where I was struggling to get the "ultimate profile" every week and getting my doors blown off in 17.5, I would just move to mod.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
I'm with you there. I started RC racing mid-late 80's (off-road), and it was very simple- you had fixed-can stock (reasonably fast but controlled) and MOD. This was "the show" and it was all about dialing in the right wind/timing/other motor and esc tuning. Of course these are different times, but it's a relevant example. Mod is fast regardless of how much you play with the parameters. I know for myself at least, I don't want to have laptops/smartphones/tuning cards whatever constantly hooked up to my esc (exaggeration, I know) to dial it in. My local track is going to run non-boosted 17.5, I'm fine with that. If I was in a situation where I was struggling to get the "ultimate profile" every week and getting my doors blown off in 17.5, I would just move to mod.
You realize in the late 80's mod was probably as slow as if not slower than boosted 17.5 is now?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:51 AM
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Whatever they decide on I find it unnecessary to have 3-4 different 17.5 classes (like at the 'birds, amatuer 17.5, non-timing 17.5, timing 17.5, RCGT). This dilutes TC too much at a time when turnouts are severely down, especially at the club and state level. The Florida Electric State Series has only been pulling 20-30 racers per event and they are divided between 5 classes! (Stock, mod, non-timing stock, WGT, RCGT)

Off-road has a boat load of classes but at least in Florida, off-road racing is pulling 200+ entries at big events and 100+ entries at club races.

For electric to survive I think that we need to consolidate classes and then [i]stick to them[/]. I have not been racing for very long compared to many of our hobby's veterans, but I know that in the last couple of years we have gone from 10.5 to 13.5 to 17.5 with GTB's and SPX's and Tekins and look where we are back at now... Tekin's with no timing that you could run a GTB against.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:51 AM
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There is not a ton of difference in time between 17.5 blinky and 17.5 timing on carpet tracks...maybe a couple of tenths from the fast guys. There is a huge difference in times for the average driver.

Blinky classes just make things simple...solder in motor, put on pinion, drive car!

17.5 Blinky is still pretty fast for new people, but is the best option.
13.5 Blinky has the rip missing from 17.5 motors
Mod is great but is exponentially more difficult than 13.5 with timing

None of these timing classes will ever prepare you for modified racing. Mod motors simply don't work like 17.5 or 13.5 with timing. Timing classes boost late in the line and mod accelerates very early. They are not even close to similar and is irrelevant to compare.

13.5 with an SPX was simply awesome and a lot of fun to race. We moved to 17.5 locally so that the races that could not honestly handle 13.5 had a class that they could run. Once we got a good class established in 17.5 we then left the newer drivers behind and went back to racing 13.5. Then real boost came out and decimated all of our progress locally. Now everyone runs 17.5 with boost and are going slower and breaking more stuff as a result. 13.5 without boost is a fun class and is fast enough for more seasoned racers, but not as insane as modified.

I really want to see racing a bit less complicated and more accessible to all...I think three classes are required in order to provide the natural progression as skills improve.trying to go from 17.5 to mod will really drive people away. Besides the biggest classes at all of the races are stock and super stock. Mod is hard and expensive for the average racer, so lets stop pretending that it is just a little faster then 17.5 with timing. Anyone that says that is out of their mind.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:58 AM
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Maybe it will get left this way, 13.5 sounds like fun again.
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