Boost is Dead

Old 04-27-2011, 12:52 PM
  #376  
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Originally Posted by wolf16731 View Post
Gotta love it when everyone loves to say, "I do this for the challenge!" and then when the challenge comes, nobody wants it because, "I can't understand it!" Boost isn't that hard to understand, nor is it hard to adjust. Its actually quite easy, and this is coming from a nitro junkie. Really shows how much people care for their own hobby really....
+1. It has been two years, but the complaints are no different to those we had for 20 years with BR Stock motors - people couldn't find the way to tune them. That is one reason that everyone pushed for BL, to get rid of the tuning of BR motors!!

Boosted speedos increase the efficiency of the motors, and without it the motors are less efficient and there is more of a speed and acceleration gap between drivers. This non-boosted phase will soon get reversed when people are fed up with buying new motors and cells regularly.

If I ruled the world, it would be Stock 17.5 boosted, Sports 13.5 boosted and Mod - and that goes for TC and 12th and WGT. That way I know that I could give everyone a set-up for their speedo and a ratio for their motor that they could fit and forget. But I don't rule the world...
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:00 PM
  #377  
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Originally Posted by locked View Post
I can't imagine how painfully dull true 25.5 USVTA must be. It's good for some people to learn how to steer and drive the best lines, but it doesn't even require a precise setup. If you get the ride height close and the car tracking straight, you're pretty much good to go.
LOL
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:50 PM
  #378  
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
LOL
I'm just going by my experience with 21.5 blinky. I may have exaggerated a little, but I know my slow car would be terrible if I put a faster motor in it, without rebuilding the shocks, the diff and making sure every other aspect of the setup is within a very tight margin first, but everyone thinks it's "dialed" when I'm racing it in 21.5 blinky. lol

So yeah, the setup can be off by a bit and still be very drivable in the turtle classes. The forces acting on the suspension are far less to be able to notice the poor setup. Some would see this as a good thing...To me it just feels more like a leisurely Sunday drive than racing.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:55 PM
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The slower the class, the faster you go with a good car. You will have an easy time getting around the track if your car is off, but you won't be fast
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:29 PM
  #380  
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It's funny down here at the end of the world. At the recent Nats, Touring stock, Mini and F1 were three of the biggest classes, which was a HUGE turn-around from last year. They are all Silver Can , and mini is M03 or M05 out-of-the-box-only racing.
The racing was soooooo close, and those classes were a huge hit. Superstock and Mod TC didn't fair as well.
We generally have fast classes for our national rules, but the slower ones are the ones getting attention now, and I think it's just that brushless is getting too fast for the AVERAGE racer to drive CONFIDENTLY.
Blinky doesn't cure that, motors do in my opinion. Racers I have met all openly share ESC settings with others, so it's not hard to get the right setting if you ask.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:44 PM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
The slower the class, the faster you go with a good car. You will have an easy time getting around the track if your car is off, but you won't be fast
Yup, in essence. The less HP available, the more it matters not that you have a drivable car, but that you have a car that carries as much corner speed as possible. The inverse is true the more HP you put into the car. People are still amazed when you can go 2-3 tenths quicker at 25.5 speeds, and it's nothing but car.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:30 PM
  #382  
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
The slower the class, the faster you go with a good car. You will have an easy time getting around the track if your car is off, but you won't be fast
Ah, but we forget what most people don't understand. The less HP, the more Racing becomes chasing perfection. without the "rip" you can't make mistakes, and by mistakes I mean running anything outside or .2 or .3 off your best lap. That is what makes all of this so hard. So once you step up to boost, or mod, you now have to drive a car moving faster, to the same line you had your stock car on.

Forget the idea that the slower motor makes it easier. If anything it is less intimidating to a novice.

Also throttle inputs in stock make it "easier" you pull the trigger, light lifts, and no brakes...it's less to work on, in brushed days, we pointed the cars around the track one inch off every board. Big races had 15+ guys that were all the same speed and it came down to who made less mistakes. ( I also believe this is what made the mains a mess, because in stock (Foam tires, Brushed motors, sedans) it is a race to the first corner, after that you had to wait for people to blow out.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:24 AM
  #383  
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And now the blinky fans have to deal with things like this:

http://www.redrc.net/2011/05/roar-su...or-six-months/
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:05 AM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
And now the blinky fans have to deal with things like this:

http://www.redrc.net/2011/05/roar-su...or-six-months/
Nice to see ROAR protecting us from a major player in ESC's over here. Not to mention, as I have 2 of these does this mean that I can't go and race in MOD with this ESC at a ROAR event? As it seems this is not specified in the ban. Just says roar sanctioned event. As an aside, I have run back to back with the prospec and the MKII in blinky mode and the lap times are the same. So if the spec mode is different I can't tell.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:16 AM
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Does anyone know the what spec mode is? I would really like to hear an explanation from ROAR as to what they expect from a "zero" timing ESC. As I understand it there is no such thing as zero timing. So it would seem there is a standard amount of timing expected to fall within the "zero" spec. I have not seen it posted on their site, so I am just wondering who makes the decision of what zero is.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:21 AM
  #386  
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We had our first national championship race this weekend with stock 0 timing with all the Roar speedos and it was great , no cooked motors , all the same speed (fixed gearing) and the results were great close racing.

A final results were as follows

Place Name Laps Total Fastest Middled
1st A

1 1 0 Eric Bresser 23 7:00.107 17.929 18.265
2 2 0 Ronald Bestman 23 7:06.772 18.169 18.555
3 3 0 Pascal Houten 23 7:07.118 18.146 18.570
4 5 0 Michel Peterse 23 7:07.604 18.149 18.591
5 6 0 Raymond Bakx 23 7:08.562 18.233 18.633
6 4 0 Jetze Reitsma 23 7:12.908 18.274 18.822
7 9 0 Phil Hoggart 22 7:01.026 18.349 19.137
8 8 0 Vincent Koers 22 7:05.064 18.345 19.321
9 10 0 Cees Lagerwaard 21 7:11.329 18.645 20.539
10 7 0 Chris vd Hagen 7 2:33.524 18.219 21.932

2nd A
1 1 0 Eric Bresser 23 7:03.056 17.741 18.393
2 3 0 Pascal Houten 23 7:06.073 18.179 18.524
3 6 0 Raymond Bakx 23 7:10.329 18.238 18.709
4 5 0 Michel Peterse 23 7:10.617 18.261 18.722
5 7 0 Chris vd Hagen 23 7:12.105 18.236 18.787
6 9 0 Phil Hoggart 23 7:17.965 18.255 19.041
7 10 0 Cees Lagerwaard 22 7:14.273 18.794 19.739
8 2 0 Ronald Bestman 13 4:12.381 18.531 19.413
9 4 0 Jetze Reitsma 6 4:19.746 18.371 43.291
10 8 0 Vincent Koers 0 0:00.000 0.000 0.000

3rd A

1 1 0 Eric Bresser 23 7:07.096 17.880 18.569
2 3 0 Pascal Houten 23 7:08.189 18.170 18.616
3 7 0 Chris vd Hagen 23 7:11.996 18.276 18.782
4 8 0 Vincent Koers 23 7:15.795 18.338 18.947
5 2 0 Ronald Bestman 22 7:00.701 18.591 19.122
6 5 0 Michel Peterse 22 7:00.913 18.266 19.132
7 6 0 Raymond Bakx 22 7:13.036 18.362 19.683
8 10 0 Cees Lagerwaard 21 7:09.351 18.721 20.445
9 9 0 Phil Hoggart 20 6:20.466 18.459 19.023
10 4 0 Jetze Reitsma 2 0:43.107 21.040 21.553
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #387  
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
You can't uninvent things, so once people realise that they rely less on cells and motors in boosted, the pendulum will swing the other way. I give it two years...

That's 2 years utterly wasted IMHO
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:32 AM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by macdude View Post
Nice to see ROAR protecting us from a major player in ESC's over here. Not to mention, as I have 2 of these does this mean that I can't go and race in MOD with this ESC at a ROAR event? As it seems this is not specified in the ban. Just says roar sanctioned event. As an aside, I have run back to back with the prospec and the MKII in blinky mode and the lap times are the same. So if the spec mode is different I can't tell.
Mod is open speedo so you should be able to run it. ROAR probably should have mentioned that in the announcement though.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chris_dono View Post
That's 2 years utterly wasted IMHO
Granted, but since people do not want to learn the lessons of history (25 years of running BR motors with 'fixed timing') they are condemned to repeat them. I said that the BL development would end up with a laptop on every pit table, and was told that was rubbish. I expect the same again, but can't resist "I told you so" - you read that here first!!
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:10 PM
  #390  
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Originally Posted by macdude View Post
Does anyone know the what spec mode is? I would really like to hear an explanation from ROAR as to what they expect from a "zero" timing ESC. As I understand it there is no such thing as zero timing. So it would seem there is a standard amount of timing expected to fall within the "zero" spec. I have not seen it posted on their site, so I am just wondering who makes the decision of what zero is.
As long as the manufacturers after the discussions with ROAR know what is expected by zero timing then all ESCs should be programmed with the exact same timing in them all for blinky mode. If you want to know what the specification is the ROAR specs will be the same as the BRCA use here in the UK. The BRCA publish how they expect a zero timing ESC to operate, see below, and any ESC raced at a BRCA meeting can be taken away for analysis after the meeting to check it meets these specs.
Attached Thumbnails Boost is Dead-zerotiming.jpg  
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