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Old 04-22-2011, 11:54 PM   #316
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Yes with they amount of power from brushless and lipos a 2 speed would just complicate things in tc
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:08 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Just curious, why are two-speed transmissions not allowed in electric TC, yet boost esc (which can simulate a two speed) are allowed?
Different horse, different course. An IC engine makes minimum torque at low revs, so it needs a means of torque multiplication (a gearbox) to get the car moving. When it runs out of revs, it then needs a different ratio to get it back to it's maximum torque so it can rev up again.

An electric motor has maximum torque at zero revs, so it doesn't need a gearbox to get it going. Once it reaches maximum revs, that is dictated by the back emf it generates being equal to the input voltage. By changing the timing, you can make more use of the voltage before the back emf equals the input voltage. Timing is nothing like a gearbox, it is using the Laws of Electromagnetism to get more power from the motor. It's one reason that, as Larry points out above, there are different speedo settings for different motor and car combinations.

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With a car that big and heavy I could see a 2 speed having some benefit. In 1/10th TC most of the major manufacturers had already abandoned 2 speeds by the time ROAR had outlawed them as they had no benefit. Single speed TCs were making faster lap times on the track.
Two speeds were outlawed in the 1996 IFMAR ISTC Rules agreed with all IFMAR blocks. ROAR followed the IFMAR Rules. The reason they were banned from the outset, along with slipper clutches, was to keep the transmission of a TC as simple as possible for both the users, and the manufacturers.

When I wrote those Rules, it was with input from all the major manufacturers, and the IFMAR Blocs, in order to get a class that would move forward at reasonable cost. Including slippers and gearboxes would have meant that small manufacturers stood no chance, and people buying a Tamiya or Kyosho car from the hobby shop would be immediately uncompetitive. They have stood the test of time pretty well. If only I could have foreseen the BL motor and boost speedos - but there is no vision quite so clear as 20/20 hindsight!!
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:16 AM   #318
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SlowerOne,

Thank you very much for the reply.

Programmable escs (some requiring a laptop) adds complexity to the users. Took me months to grasp programmable escs, and even till now I'm learning.

Maybe organizations can take a second look at boost escs and if it complies with the spirit of keeping things simple?

Happy weekend to all.
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Last edited by rccartips; 04-23-2011 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Post above answered my question.
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Old 04-23-2011, 04:18 AM   #319
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In the UK, the main 2 day nationals, of which there are five, only have two classes; open Mod and Pro-Stock (10.5).

There was a proposal at the AGM at the end of last season to look into some 1 day nationals for 13.5 and 17.5

There were a few arguments against these as we have quite a few race series that deal with the higher level club racer and the entries so far would suggest that it might not go ahead anyway.

None of the championships in the UK restrict the ESC in any way, they are all open settings.

One of the larger regional series, STCC, this year only has two classes, 13.5 and 21.5
The latter does appear to be closer to the old 27t racing.

13.5 is rapidly becoming the biggest class around in TC's and this wasn't by design, it's just the way racers have gone.
You have to also remember we race on medium to large outdoor tracks most of the year and even in winter most carpet meetings are on 30m*15m tracks etc.
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Old 04-23-2011, 04:42 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Just curious, why are two-speed transmissions not allowed in electric TC, yet boost esc (which can simulate a two speed) are allowed?
My electric RS4 with the 2-speed option didn't like a brushless motor at all. The one-way bearing seize after a few runs. It was faster and cool to see the differance when it did change gears. It did work fine when I had a 13T brushed motor in it. I know Schumacher had that 3-speed electric on-road.

Edit: I've also seen a TC3 with a 2-speed set up in Japan.
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:48 PM   #321
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....................................... - but there is no vision quite so clear as 20/20 hindsight!!

Not true Keemosoby (sp). Some still don't get it.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:25 PM   #322
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Wise words Tonto. Too many believe that possession of a keyboard, an internet connection and an opinion makes them right, irrespective of the lessons of history, or the facts!!

(PS - Kimo Sabi, or Kimosabi, is the spelling, the name Tonto gave the Lone Ranger. The origin is a bit murky!)
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:12 PM   #323
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...you know we will take you up on that offer however...
Personally I can say what got me back into racing again was spec classes. I love VTA, I'm not intimidated by the speeds and it's gentle learning curve. I was however frankly bummed that there were no Tekins on the VTA approved list. My first ESC was a TSC G12c. Your customer service has been pretty good to me and my friends over the years. With no disrespect to Novak (their setup in my VTA has worked VERY well at a great price) I would have purchased a Tekin setup if one was VTA legal.

"Seems obvious that having the choice is a good thing..."

I couldn't agree more. Build us a tiny, spec class, sensored, brushless, ESC without a USB interface; give us an excellent 25.5 VTA setup to run. I would gladly try it out...

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Interesting that the core reason for even considering these product bans has not really been mentioned in this thread. If it was a real and current problem you would think it would have come up in this discussion. There have been a few issues, but they have all been dealt with quickly and proved the system works.
Please elaborate. What are you talking about?
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:55 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Just curious, why are two-speed transmissions not allowed in electric TC, yet boost esc (which can simulate a two speed) are allowed?
You wouldn't have any brakes.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:40 PM   #325
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Default If you think On-Road RC is difficult ?

This makes our stuff look like childs play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlBlVMk-u4
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:45 PM   #326
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I am no one but here are my .02 cents: The problem I see here is it is impossible to make everyone happy.
I agree with having a slower spec class for those who need it.
I also agree with a boosted class for those who need it.
I also agree with a mod class for those who need it.
What I am getting at is that the classes should be organized by the amount of racers wanting to run it. Plain and simple. Where I run I get the same lap times with a 17.5 boosted as a 10.5 blinky. We figure they are pretty much equal so we allow 10.5 blinky and 17.5 boosted to run together. It can be done due to the size of the track and the skill of the driver. Is it fair? Yes to those that can handle the speed. But no to those who think they can handle the speed.

Lets get to the point of this topic. What this hobby needs most, people are not willing to give. A-main drivers need to teach others to drive and setup their cars the right way, but this valuable experience and knowledge that they have accumulated by the sweat of their brow and their own frustration is impossible to pass on in a short time. This is difficult for those sponsored drivers to do because it takes up their R & D time and they are not paid to give up such valuable time. They also need to practice and try different things to stay fast and on top. The result is, rules change constantly to make the entry level driver think he is a racer. There is no motor, speedo or class that can replace the fact that you have to learn to drive before you can race. So this discussion will go on for generations because hobby shops cannot afford to pay an A-main driver to teach others what he does.

I am a decent racer, but I am always looking to learn more, and one thing I know is you do not get faster by racing in a class slower than what you are capable of, or racing in a class faster than what you are capable of. Until we have a sanctioning body that can oversee every club race and big race then the chaos continues.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:54 PM   #327
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i ran boost today.....
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:59 PM   #328
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i ran boost today.....
Dude...u can't call anyone back?: lol:
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:29 AM   #329
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Dude...u can't call anyone back?: lol:
quit poking me on facebook
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:56 AM   #330
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This makes our stuff look like childs play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlBlVMk-u4
you mean its not
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