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Old 04-22-2011, 09:42 AM   #301
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Nicely done Rob! Maybe I read what I wanted to from it, that is the danger in forums and putting yourself out there. You know I think the VTA is a great thing and cannot deny its success. I think any class that people enjoy is a great thing and provides one more place for people to find a place to fit in. I am still bummed we have been excluded and you will not accept ROAR approved spec modes, but in your thread it is clear that the majority likes what you offer them and I backed off. You know we will take you up on that offer however

Now we are talking about general rules for everything from 1/12 to TC to carpet to pavement, to offroad buggies to short course, stock and super stock, and banning existing products. A broad group with many different levels of expectation for their racing and it is unlikely one size will fit everyone. If nothing else this thread shows there is not a majority agreement on the most radical version of the no boost plan, ban esc’s that are updateable and or that have a ‘spec NT’ mode and timing boost features.

Boost is hardly dead. The choice for the paved nats was no boost classes. That does not mean it has to be the only choice for all races. The idea of its complete demise is just in its infancy and really comes from a small group. No one here has the power to transform the entire market overnight.

We firmly believe that boost technologies are solid stuff and will survive on its own merits. It gives us a transmission like all other cars have. Who drives around in 3rd gear? Bogging on the bottom and floating the valves on the top end, blowing steam from the overheating. Some people think that feels good because that is what they are use to. Some people also like classic cars, but who can argue that the newer stuff isn’t a smoother ride. The old days were always better….. because old people have lousy memories

Interesting that the core reason for even considering these product bans has not really been mentioned in this thread. If it was a real and current problem you would think it would have come up in this discussion. There have been a few issues, but they have all been dealt with quickly and proved the system works.

It is clear that NT has a place in RC racing. It is also clear that boost has a place. Seems obvious that having the choice is a good thing.

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Old 04-22-2011, 09:54 AM   #302
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So ....I'm 40 yo raced 1/8th scale on road nitro maybe 5 times (MRX4X), IGT class 3 times (A Main...winner once lol) Mini z MOD, Stock, F1 and AWD maybe 100 times with countless laps at my LHS track. I'm new to electric tc on road ran one race MOD last week with experienced guys and fell in love. I cant really program a esc, but have a laptop and interface thingy and dont mind the learning curve. I have a good knowledge of RC and really learned alot about driving, setup ,batteries (nimh) , courtesy and gearing from MINI Z. My home track is fairly large 1/8 nitro and 1/10 nitro race there and electric MOD is being introduced. I feel 10.5 with boost is where I'm comfortable ( underpowered for track size but more than enough speed for me) however the sanctioned race in nearby NJ is governed by ROAR ...............WHAT CLASS SHOULD I RUN ?
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:08 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Tekin Prez View Post
Nicely done Rob! Maybe I read what I wanted to from it, that is the danger in forums and putting yourself out there. You know I think the VTA is a great thing and cannot deny its success. I think any class that people enjoy is a great thing and provides one more place for people to find a place to fit in. I am still bummed we have been excluded and you will not accept ROAR approved spec modes, but in your thread it is clear that the majority likes what you offer them and I backed off. You know we will take you up on that offer however

Now we are talking about general rules for everything from 1/12 to TC to carpet to pavement, to offroad buggies to short course, stock and super stock, and banning existing products. A broad group with many different levels of expectation for their racing and it is unlikely one size will fit everyone. If nothing else this thread shows there is not a majority agreement on the most radical version of the no boost plan, ban esc’s that are updateable and or that have a ‘spec NT’ mode and timing boost features.

Boost is hardly dead. The choice for the paved nats was no boost classes. That does not mean it has to be the only choice for all races. The idea of its complete demise is just in its infancy and really comes from a small group. No one here has the power to transform the entire market overnight.

We firmly believe that boost technologies are solid stuff and will survive on its own merits. It gives us a transmission like all other cars have. Who drives around in 3rd gear? Bogging on the bottom and floating the valves on the top end, blowing steam from the overheating. Some people think that feels good because that is what they are use to. Some people also like classic cars, but who can argue that the newer stuff isn’t a smoother ride. The old days were always better….. because old people have lousy memories

Interesting that the core reason for even considering these product bans has not really been mentioned in this thread. If it was a real and current problem you would think it would have come up in this discussion. There have been a few issues, but they have all been dealt with quickly and proved the system works.

It is clear that NT has a place in RC racing. It is also clear that boost has a place. Seems obvious that having the choice is a good thing.

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It would also be nice if the tech was improved to the point where a boosted speedo out of the box was already "close" to the right setup with just gearing adjustments. And one button away from blinky.

I think Tekin has closed in on this with the latest updates, but the user still has to by hardware, to update the firmware, etc, etc.

But if ROAR or other governing bodies keep making knee jerk reactions to tech, I can see where the development will slow, or even stop.

That's not in everyone's best interest.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #304
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It would also be nice if the tech was improved to the point where a boosted speedo out of the box was already "close" to the right setup with just gearing adjustments. And one button away from blinky.

I think Tekin has closed in on this with the latest updates, but the user still has to by hardware, to update the firmware, etc, etc.

But if ROAR or other governing bodies keep making knee jerk reactions to tech, I can see where the development will slow, or even stop.

That's not in everyone's best interest.
The problem with this is every track, and motor and application is different. You dont run the same settings in 17.5 TC Boosted as you do in 13.5 12th scale boosted and whatever else.

They are completley different.

Plus everyone is looking for a different feel.

Not to mention different tracks.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:35 AM   #305
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The problem with this is every track, and motor and application is different. You dont run the same settings in 17.5 TC Boosted as you do in 13.5 12th scale boosted and whatever else.

They are completley different.

Plus everyone is looking for a different feel.

Not to mention different tracks.
granted.
But I said close, not perfect.

Do you really think for the sharpest minds in our hobby, that this is impossible.
Seems we are close already to me.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:22 AM   #306
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granted.
But I said close, not perfect.

Do you really think for the sharpest minds in our hobby, that this is impossible.
Seems we are close already to me.
Tekin already does this with preset Profiles. 1 is Blinky, 2-5 varing timing and mod settings, plus 2 customizable
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:26 PM   #307
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Tekin already does this with preset Profiles. 1 is Blinky, 2-5 varing timing and mod settings, plus 2 customizable
Please read the whole post Miller.
I am aware of what Tekin offers currently.
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:11 PM   #308
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granted.
But I said close, not perfect.


Seems we are close already to me.
Ah..... asked for and already done?

Now.that that's solved, next....
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:26 PM   #309
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Just curious, why are two-speed transmissions not allowed in electric TC, yet boost esc (which can simulate a two speed) are allowed?
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:32 PM   #310
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Because they would just make TC's complicated
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:54 PM   #311
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Two speeds are meant to give nitro TCs better acceleration on spool up. Electrics don't need that.
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Old 04-22-2011, 07:15 PM   #312
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Two speeds are meant to give nitro TCs better acceleration on spool up. Electrics don't need that.
you are being too literal, he was being a little metaphorical.

as long as we are being metaphorical, instead of a 2speed transmission, boost is really more like a mechanical timing advance.

(for those under 40) automotive ignition systems in ancient times used a combination of manifold vacuum and centrifugal weight mechanism to provide ignition timing advance as a function of load and rpm.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:36 PM   #313
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...............

Stock now is probably faster than Mod was a few years ago.

....................

Just my thoughts.

You are right! Let's use 1/12 scale as the example.

2002, the 1/12 modified car ran a 10x2 or even an 8x2 with 4 cells. The minimum weight was 28 oz. They ran approximately 35 MPH in the long straight and were at about 41 laps in the 8 minute run. Radar guns confirmed these speeds at Snowbirds and one of the onroad carpet nats @ The Track in Gathersburg, MD (2000).

Now the 1/12 class with 17.5 and boost, 1S lipoly battery and minimu weight of 730 grams is over 40 MPH in the straight and will run 44 to 45 laps on a large track that is bigger than Snowbirds, but close to the same size as The Track.

A couple snapshots in time.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #314
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Two speeds are meant to give nitro TCs better acceleration on spool up. Electrics don't need that.
two speed does work very well with 1/8 serpent converted to electric tho
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:35 PM   #315
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With a car that big and heavy I could see a 2 speed having some benefit. In 1/10th TC most of the major manufacturers had already abandoned 2 speeds by the time ROAR had outlawed them as they had no benefit. Single speed TCs were making faster lap times on the track.
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