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Old 04-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #226
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Self governance does not work in RC or in racing in general...Not even a little bit. When was the last time you were at the track and saw the right people in the right classes?
That is why rules are put in place to get drivers where they need to be. How many 1:1 race organizations have a license system. To race in the upper levels you first have to prove yourself. RC we just determine things by the motor in your car. There is almost nothing that deals with the person holding the transmitter.

With RC the heats put drivers where they need to be. The clock does not lie. Just because you put a mod motor in your car does not mean you belong in the fastest heats. First time drivers at a track sorry you will be in the lower heats. Or does RC get some kind of system to show you belong in the upper heats if you are an experienced driver?
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:50 AM   #227
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The majority of RC would be just fine with two equipment choices Mod(open) and stock. Mod would be completely open run whatever you want. Also registration would not be completely open. You would have to prove yourself in the stock class first. The stock class no boost ESC and 17.5 motors with motor timing allowed. Lets people get used to adjusting timing. If you want to make the A main of stock you need to be a decent driver and have some understanding of how to adjust your motor. If you want to go faster than stock prove yourself first then move up to mod. No more hand holding of those that think mod is to fast but stock is to slow. Put rules in place to keep people moving forward. Those that just find a nice comfortable place and do not really want to push themselves to improve drastically that is where a full spec class comes in. Racing touring car or 1/12th you should be pushing to be at the top and making the steps to get there.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:01 PM   #228
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The majority of RC would be just fine with two equipment choices Mod(open) and stock. Mod would be completely open run whatever you want. Also registration would not be completely open. You would have to prove yourself in the stock class first. The stock class no boost ESC and 17.5 motors with motor timing allowed. Lets people get used to adjusting timing. If you want to make the A main of stock you need to be a decent driver and have some understanding of how to adjust your motor. If you want to go faster than stock prove yourself first then move up to mod. No more hand holding of those that think mod is to fast but stock is to slow. Put rules in place to keep people moving forward. Those that just find a nice comfortable place and do not really want to push themselves to improve drastically that is where a full spec class comes in. Racing touring car or 1/12th you should be pushing to be at the top and making the steps to get there.
I could deal with that, if it's TC your talking about. Blinky (but maybe adjustable timing motors) for regular stock. Boosted for the Expert stock racers. Like others have said, 12th is a different deal, due to batteries, ect. 12th does not need to be slow(er).
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:17 PM   #229
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I could deal with that, if it's TC your talking about. Blinky (but maybe adjustable timing motors) for regular stock. Boosted for the Expert stock racers. Like others have said, 12th is a different deal, due to batteries, ect. 12th does not need to be slow(er).
I have always considered 12th to be mod only. With a car that handles like those why would you not want to push their performance and yours.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:23 PM   #230
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I have always considered 12th to be mod only. With a car that handles like those why would you not want to push their performance and yours.
ding!ding!ding!

Fully agreed.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:36 PM   #231
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They always have and always will.....Did you think that was going to change?

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What battery controversy? (serious question, I didn't hear anything about it)
What is done, is done. To me, what little credibility ROAR had gained is gone. I don't have a vested interest in that particular ROAR move but those for those that do, sorry. You guys just got done up by ROAR.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:17 PM   #232
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I had hoped...but I was fooling myself.



What is done, is done. To me, what little credibility ROAR had gained is gone. I don't have a vested interest in that particular ROAR move but those for those that do, sorry. You guys just got done up by ROAR.
The actual rule for legalizing Lipo's has been changed in the new rule book but the book hasnt been posted yet. It will be in the next few days (or so I am told). When the general public reads it it will make more sense. You'll be able to take the "done up by ROAR" off in a sense.

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Old 04-21-2011, 01:23 PM   #233
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The actual rule for legalizing Lipo's has been changed in the new rule book but the book hasnt been posted yet. It will be in the next few days (or so I am told). When the general public reads it it will make more sense. You'll be able to take the "done up by ROAR" off in a sense.

EA
Why the rule change EA? I don't know if you are privy to the details but, why change a rule that only let batteries get legalized twice a year? This protects us from battery of the week (literally).

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Old 04-21-2011, 03:30 PM   #234
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so whats the change?...
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:37 PM   #235
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The big decisions have not been made in regards to timing and this is a decent discussion with the most passionate and vocal of the race group that is most effected. This thread is actually fairly balanced and has only had a few distractions while some really good points have been made. Reality is that this is how a governing process is supposed to be. As the views are presented it only looks like crap when people are frustrated by those that do not agree with them.

If this thread was 90% on the NT side, or ROAR had already made their decision, I could understand Robs comment of “If it bothers you that much don't race”. That works for him in the USVTA thread where he is King, but here that may not be the best way to include different points of view and find an answer.

It probably was the right answer for the USVTA where interiors and accurate classic paint jobs are more important than lap times. I get it, respect it and believe it increased participation in that segment of the market. That does not guarantee it is the right answer for everywhere else. Seems we are fortunate enough to have the option for the segments that it does make sense.

I do not see anyone arguing that there should not be a NT class at all. I do see some very good points why ALL classes should not have to be NT. Perhaps most important is why we should even consider banning products that have the ability to do both and limit our options.

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Wow, someone who gets it...
Too funny, you are surprised when someone else ‘gets it’ and agrees with you. You make my case that perhaps you do not represent the majority and you are just one of the opinions to be considered.

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this statement seems contrary to the stated goal of 'inclusion and growth' in the ranks.
somehow i don't understand what the problem is with a system that reduces operating temps, reliance on battery voltage and motor selection.
One of the many that ‘get it’ a little differently and have spoke up in this thread with valid points. I know, they suck and should just go away if they do not like it. That whole way of thinking is wrong on so many levels.

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Do you honestly think that? That anybody gives a rats ass if Tekin sells 1 millions escs tomorrow? If they did, congratulations and more power to them. If you think anybody cares about what the "best" speed control is, that's nuts.

I know that the rapid development and complexity has turned people off. Say what you will about how it's all not a big deal, it ran off a lot of guys. I know I see more guys coming back now that there is blink mode. Maybe they are not all he-men like everybody else around here, but they keep the doors open at the track.
You really seem to have a problem with Tekin and our success

This affects all the brands and all the existing racers. You point at us a lot, but reality is we are just the only ones that come get involved and be part of the process which makes us a target. I disagree with you which clearly frustrates you. I am not going to apologize for working hard and giving people what they wanted. Recall we did not start this game, we had to keep up to survive.

You also made my case again that having a blinky mode option helped in your case. Odd considering you do not allow blinky mode and require esc’s that have no timing features at all. Yet you have agreed with me in the past that technically blink modes are more equal than any other part of the system. That has been proven on race tracks around the country for some time now. As I recall your argument was the green gas tank theory, which I understand, but not sure we should structure all of RC around driver envy and perception rather than fact.

We have all the tools we need to make the most people happy right now. So where is the fire?

So back to the question is Boost Dead? Maybe for stock it makes sense in some classes, but across the board we would be taking a huge step backwards and limiting our options.

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Old 04-21-2011, 05:55 PM   #236
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Boost is only dead on the local level that allows it to die. our club only offers 17.5 no boost and mod, some of us have decided to run boost anyway, in the mod class, not really that big a deal, big races, its only one race, still not a big deal. FUN, just focus on the Fun and its all good
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:05 PM   #237
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tools we need to make the most people happy right now. So where is the fire?

So back to the question is Boost Dead? Maybe for stock it makes sense in some classes, but across the board we would be taking a huge step backwards.

Tekin Prez
Best 2 lines, why? because we now have the option to do anything, and we still argue over it.

And,

It is a huge step backwards, as a hobby/sport I think the idea is to make a class that the most people will join, under 17.5 is so slow, it would be a true rookie class, anything over 17.5 is "to fast" for the novice racer. The idea is to fill up tracks, fill up the races again. Nobody should blame Tekin, or any of the other manufactures. For me this goes back to the 09 carpet nats, Tekins were fast because the guys that had them figured out how to set them up in stock. There were other speedos with "boost" and adjustable timing, nobody new what the hell we were doing, it was easy, get a tekin and copy a profile, done. Now with more people working on using diffrent speedos the game is back to who did the most work. Heck I run a castle speedo, and I have run the Tekin, and the LRP, they all work diffrently, but I could get the same performance out of them all. Personaly it came to price point, and durability. So I went with the castle, not once in blinky, or a "boost" race have I felt cheated that my gear was wrong because I did not have one over the other. Again it comes down to the work, understanding what is going on. Face it, most people don't want to work at it to find the answers, they want them given to them. Go to any track, and the guy setting the pace is asked the most questions. Whats your FDR, what speedo, what batteries, what body, what setup. Tell me and it will fix it all, forget the fact I explode my car at the end of the straight, it's the Tekin I don't have that is costing me that lap and a half. The argument will not change, regardless of what we, or anyone else does. People need a reason for their failures or shortcomings. Blame the man if you will, never look at themselves.
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:18 PM   #238
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I think thats a good thing. Make the trophy hunters run the class their skill level actually deserves.

Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.

Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:27 PM   #239
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I could deal with that, if it's TC your talking about. Blinky (but maybe adjustable timing motors) for regular stock. Boosted for the Expert stock racers. Like others have said, 12th is a different deal, due to batteries, ect. 12th does not need to be slow(er).
This is what I don't understand, "Boosted Stock" runs like a 10.5 so why not just run Modified? Stock, Open, Novice should be the classes, skills sort the field.

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Old 04-21-2011, 06:28 PM   #240
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Sounds like R/C is going to be real racing with all the rules and regulations. It will always keep technology from advancing, but it also seems to benefit a few. Good thing I don't race my R/Cs, would hate to be stuck with something I don't like.
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