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Old 04-21-2011, 09:50 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
So a low-end motor is 3 watts lower than the high-end in a single run of your product... In a car as light as a 12th scale 1s pan car 3 watts is pretty significant. So what you're saying is that out of 100 motors, there are four "anomalies". So let's, for the sake of argument, say that all four of the "anomalies" are up on watts. That means that 4 motors out of 100 are faster than the rest?Wow, way worse than my assumption of going through ten motors to find one. So now we're looking for the top 4% rather than the top 10%!

I insinuated nothing in my prior posts. I have THREE of THE SAME type of motor. All three are Duo 1's, stock rotor, untouched sensorboards. All three of them show differently on the dyno, and all three behave differently on the track. Through ESC tuning and rollout, I can get all three to run the same laptimes over an eight minute run. In Blinky, one of those motors is significantly faster than the other two.

It's not a slam on the Motor guys. There's differences in all mass produced products. I just prefer having a way to even things out.
What I said is that the 4 motors that were different "HAD SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM" so you (the public)would NEVER see them in that state. The problem would ither be fixed, or the motor would be set aside and rebuilt to make things right.

You want to talk about anomalies? The 4% I talked about would either NOT MEET ROAR SPECS for inductance. You will not find those motors with my name on them.

Also, 3 Watts @ 2s Dyno Settings. Maybe 1.5 to 2 watts at 1s settings. Most racers would never even feel the difference. Although I would love the result of racers buying 10 of my motors in hopes of finding an "ANOMALY", I realize my market is filled by very loyal customers who decided to try something different, and enjoy going against the grain and supporting a manufacturer that supports them.

There is a reason I CANT and DONT sell motors for $62...like other afformentioned manufacturers do... Perhaps its time consumers responded negatively towards companies with poor Quality Control??? Maybe things would change...

Sounds like you are already willing to buy a lot of motors to find a good one, so why are you complaining?

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Originally Posted by Tire Chunker View Post
I don't think you would have this opinion if your were an ESC manufacture. Motor wars and you are a motor manufacture what a surprising opinion.
I had an oppurtunity to step into the ESC game 2 years ago... at that same time, I told everyone to watch out, because software will get out of control.... and obviously it did. I decided it was not worth the time and money investment, and certainly not in my best interest. Meanwhile motors are the same basic specs, whether ESC's use timing or not... I chose the market I am in. It was the safer bet. And the reason I am OK with the motors becoming important again is because I have alot of faith in my motors performance. You can turn it into some scheme I have to sell 5 motors to everyone.... but any of my customers know what my business is all about.

I promote a racing series in California, and I have seen slight growth in electric classes this year, but the resurgence of Nitro racing is a huge shock to me...

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Old 04-21-2011, 09:56 AM   #212
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If you are club racing and starting out, run a slower motor. We all did.

Hang out with the pro's in boosted setups when you have big enough bits down below to run good lap times and understand what racing is about.

NO, that doesn't meen you need a TEKIN either, there are plenty of other timing adjustable ESC's out there

As for ROAR events. C'mon please...

If you are going to a ROAR event, you are expecting competition to be fierce.

If you can't programme an ESC you should not be racing at ROAR level.

You don't go to a ROAR event without understanding spring rates, oil rates, droop, rebound, toe settings, gearing etc etc so why should boost be any different?

You don't attend any bigger than club size event and expect to win the A easily....

Boost - it's only dead if enough haters vote non boosted in, the lap time you loose from not allowing boost, the pro's will find other ways to make their lap times better....

Then we will need to blame something else....

Like... One run tyres?

Or how about lightweight bodyshells?

Or secret formula additives?

There are PLENTY of things to hate on, but imo... boost isn't one of them.
you crack me up, guys are already using one run tires or should i say only using them for one run in the mains, you can't just run what ever body you want it has to be approved and everyone buys at least one new body for big races, and yea i hear lots of talk about the magic tire sause of the week. which of course can be controlled by specing the sause, like they did/do at carpet races. boost, no boost, 21.5 17.5 13.5 Mod its all good to me, its about the Fun, and I have just as much fun in 21.5 no boost as I do in MOD. oh and btw, because some people have egos that won't allow then to run anything else but MOD, I've had more races ruined by guys that can't handle the power. just thought I'd throw that last line out there for that one guy, yea you know who you are
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:59 AM   #213
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Races longer than 6 minutes? Ridiculous. My nerves are shot at the halfway point and it's a struggle to make it the last 3 minutes. More tracktime won't make you a better driver, anyway, and most current LiPos shouldn't be ran for more than 6 minutes at a time.

Motor solution - ban all motor dynos. Limit 1 motor per consumer per annual season. If you buy a bad motor, you're fault. And no more buying batches to find the best.

/end sarcasm
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:07 AM   #214
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14+ pages of absolute crap. If you couldn't tell by the battery controversy that happened at the Carpet Nats, Roar once again is doing what ever it wants.

Do you guys really think this is productive? (my post isn't either)
They always have and always will.....Did you think that was going to change?

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Old 04-21-2011, 10:40 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by The MurfDogg View Post
You want to talk about anomalies? The 4% I talked about would either NOT MEET ROAR SPECS for inductance. You will not find those motors with my name on them.

Also, 3 Watts @ 2s Dyno Settings. Maybe 1.5 to 2 watts at 1s settings. Most racers would never even feel the difference. Although I would love the result of racers buying 10 of my motors in hopes of finding an "ANOMALY", I realize my market is filled by very loyal customers who decided to try something different, and enjoy going against the grain and supporting a manufacturer that supports them.

There is a reason I CANT and DONT sell motors for $62...like other afformentioned manufacturers do... Perhaps its time consumers responded negatively towards companies with poor Quality Control??? Maybe things would change...

Sounds like you are already willing to buy a lot of motors to find a good one, so why are you complaining?


I had an oppurtunity to step into the ESC game 2 years ago... at that same time, I told everyone to watch out, because software will get out of control.... and obviously it did. I decided it was not worth the time and money investment, and certainly not in my best interest. Meanwhile motors are the same basic specs, whether ESC's use timing or not... I chose the market I am in. It was the safer bet. And the reason I am OK with the motors becoming important again is because I have alot of faith in my motors performance. You can turn it into some scheme I have to sell 5 motors to everyone.... but any of my customers know what my business is all about.

I promote a racing series in California, and I have seen slight growth in electric classes this year, but the resurgence of Nitro racing is a huge shock to me...

Matt Murphy
MurfDogg Racing

Nope, not gonna buy a ton of motors. Just one of yours I guess, if I can get it in red. As a smaller manufacturer your quality control is obviously much better than the mass market mfgs. and I assume attention to detail is what gets you there.

Please accept my nomination for ROAR's SPEC 17.5 mfg. If you make the only legal motor, and all of your stuff is that tightly toleranced, then we're all set.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:46 AM   #216
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They always have and always will.....Did you think that was going to change?

EA
Which is why certain "big races" will continue to do what their organizers feel is best for the sport, and as usual, somewhere down the line, ROAR will accept the chages that the racing community embraces.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:48 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by The MurfDogg View Post
There is a reason I CANT and DONT sell motors for $62...like other afformentioned manufacturers do... Perhaps its time consumers responded negatively towards companies with poor Quality Control??? Maybe things would change...

Sounds like you are already willing to buy a lot of motors to find a good one, so why are you complaining?
I think some racers would prefer the lower quality control in the chance that they get a fast motor. They will keep accepting the poor quality for this reason. Maybe it is time for motors to come with stickers on them with there dyno results?


For me it comes down to the racing. I want to go out and race. Classes no matter if its mod, 17.5 boosted or non-boosted. Classes do nothing more than give us more winners that can go home feeling good about themselves. So the guys in the boosted class saying the slower guys just want a ribbon you are no different with your boosted class and getting a ribbon. I race everyone, sure I might be in the C main but I am comparing myself to everyone out there. You may have finished 2nd in the 17.5 boosted A main but you still most likely lost to everyone in the mod A main. Want to end this bickering eliminate all classes and just run what you have. The mains will be sorted out by the heats. No more having a A main for multiple classes. The fast guys will be in the A main and the slower will be in the F main.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:57 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
14+ pages of absolute crap. If you couldn't tell by the battery controversy that happened at the Carpet Nats, Roar once again is doing what ever it wants.

Do you guys really think this is productive? (my post isn't either)
What battery controversy? (serious question, I didn't hear anything about it)
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:58 AM   #219
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OK, here is my 2 cents, as a motor manufacturer.

I have made this suggestion to ROAR in writing with no response.

Blinky mode is a joke IMO, until ROAR steps up to the plate and makes every manufacturer offer a 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5 turn motor, WITH NO TIMING ADJUSTMENT, that has a ROAR MANDATED 24 Degrees of timing built into the sensor board assembly. Force every manufacturer to submit a motor built to these exact specs, or else that brand will not have a legal motor offering for stock classes. How ROAR adopted the rules package we use today, and allowed stock motors to have adjustable timing is beyond me.

It was done in brushed days, why the hell cant it work now?!

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Sorry Murfdogg but we think locked timing motors has the least chance of working of all the ideas. It is the hardest to tech, has the most variables and is the easiest to cheat. There is a limit to how much timing will work in any motor. Since we cannot control it accurately enough we need to let it control itself. A natural balance that cannot be cheated… kinda like we have right now.

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Old 04-21-2011, 11:03 AM   #220
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I think some racers would prefer the lower quality control in the chance that they get a fast motor. They will keep accepting the poor quality for this reason. Maybe it is time for motors to come with stickers on them with there dyno results?


For me it comes down to the racing. I want to go out and race. Classes no matter if its mod, 17.5 boosted or non-boosted. Classes do nothing more than give us more winners that can go home feeling good about themselves. So the guys in the boosted class saying the slower guys just want a ribbon you are no different with your boosted class and getting a ribbon. I race everyone, sure I might be in the C main but I am comparing myself to everyone out there. You may have finished 2nd in the 17.5 boosted A main but you still most likely lost to everyone in the mod A main. Want to end this bickering eliminate all classes and just run what you have. The mains will be sorted out by the heats. No more having a A main for multiple classes. The fast guys will be in the A main and the slower will be in the F main.
I don't want a ribbon, I just don't want to have to buy new equipment every time ROAR decides to change the rules.

I've been running the same speedo, and 3 motors for over two years, competitively under the current structure. I'm not blowing up motors due to boost, I'm not melting speed controls. And I'm having a good time because I actually enjoy the challenge of tuning things.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:03 AM   #221
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i don't understand, you bought a esc that doesn't have boost and all the big races require you to run boost??? cause I pretty sure if you bought a esc that has boost you can pretty much just turn it off or did someone make a esc that you can't do that with, honest question I don't know?
Local body requires roar approved zero esc, mine ain't on the list, and like I said they also dumped SS, so a esc and motor not legal in the primary state level racing classes.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:14 AM   #222
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Local body requires roar approved zero esc, mine ain't on the list, and like I said they also dumped SS, so a esc and motor not legal in the primary state level racing classes.
Australia is governed by ROAR?

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Old 04-21-2011, 11:16 AM   #223
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How about ROAR just holds a national vote? If you are a current member or have paid a one-time membership fee in the past year you're eligible.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:17 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
I don't want a ribbon, I just don't want to have to buy new equipment every time ROAR decides to change the rules.
Maybe it is time for rules that have more to do with driver ability then equipment. Stop making restrictions on the equipment and let the drivers run what they want. If a driver can control a fast mod setup let him win over the guy that barely controls the boosted 17.5. People would quickly find out where they really belong.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post
Maybe it is time for rules that have more to do with driver ability then equipment. Stop making restrictions on the equipment and let the drivers run what they want. If a driver can control a fast mod setup let him win over the guy that barely controls the boosted 17.5. People would quickly find out where they really belong.
Self governance does not work in RC or in racing in general...Not even a little bit. When was the last time you were at the track and saw the right people in the right classes?
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