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Old 09-16-2004, 11:37 PM   #1
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Default Spec [email protected] national level races

Should there be spec tires for the pro drivers at national races?? In my opinion no. There should be a spec tire rule for the non-sponsored drivers That being said I think Roar and other sanctioning bodies need to spearate the classes better. A break down like this would be good

Factory mod: Your A and B team drivers would compete in this class, no spec tires in this class

Expert Mod: Any C team or independent wanting to run mod and is getting a discount from a battery, car, tire or motor manufacturer. No Spec tire rule in this class

Expert Stock: Any driver wanting to run stock and is getting a discount from a battery, car, or motor manufacturer. Spec tire rule in this class.

Expert 19 T: Any driver wanting to run an approved 19 T motor and is getting a discount from a battery, car, or motor manufacturer. Spec tire rule in this class.

19 T: Any driver wanting to run an approved 19 T motor and is not getting a discount from a battery, car or motor manufacturer. Spec tire rule in this class.

Stock: Any driver wanting to run an approved stock motor and is not getting a discount from a battery, car or motor manufacturer. Spec tire rule in this class.

I applaud Roar and other boidies in implementing spec tire rules to keep the cost down for the independent drivers, but spec tires have stilfled development of new and better tires. What happened to Team Losi's Yellow compound tire, or Prolines H-13 compound. I just think Losi, proline, yoke, BSR, Team Orion and other tire manufacturers have no incentive to develop new and better compounds when most of the big outdoor rubber races have a spec tire. I'm not saying that we go back to the one run compound tires (Prolines S3) the Losi yellow compound and proline H-13 compound already steered us away from that.

Just my 2 cent
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:53 AM   #2
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I totally disagree with this(my opinion).....

Spec tires are great for all forms of racing....

there are soooooooooooooo many diff compounds of tires out there , that the racers would have to bring 2 boxes of tires and only maybe have one run each to test them for the track itself...not to mention all the inserts that are out there(flavor of the day inserts)....

with spec tires we have more time to work on cars and the race comes down to the best set up car and the best driver....

Just my .02$

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Old 09-17-2004, 01:01 AM   #3
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I really agree with barry.

they had this discussion in a german forum too.

Most driver like to compete with the sponsored-driver.

And a spec tire holds the cost lower.




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Old 09-17-2004, 01:26 AM   #4
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Barry makes some good points (I forgot about insterts) I guess my whole arguement over spec tires comes down to one question Why did Proline, Losi, and others stop developing touring car tires? An already flooded market? Anyone thoughts on this? I still think they should sperate the classes better. On entriely diffrenet subject I finally broke 90 on the golf course the other day. As a fellow golfer I thought Barry could appercate that.
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:07 AM   #5
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I don't know Barry...
I don't see the pro's, or particulars, coming with all the brand motors available, or cars, or batts.
So I believe that you will came with one make of tire, maybe sponsored, that you already know well, and the others will come with others makes.
Like motors, cars, batts.
This, I think, will lead to better tires as sponger is pointing out.
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:57 AM   #6
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I think, different brands of batteries and motors work almost the same on a track.

But, not tires and inserts.....


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Old 09-17-2004, 05:38 AM   #7
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I think spec tires is a great setup. Then everyone has the same set of problems and it is the best setup that wins and who adapted best to the tires they were given. Everyone is in the same boat.
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:04 AM   #8
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Isn't picking the right tires part of the setup too? While we are at it, why not have spec shocks too. There are way too many other ways that these sactioning bodies could save the racer more money then a few sets of tires are going to cost them.
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:29 AM   #9
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So let me understand this -

You want to double the classes at a ROAR On-road Nats? Going from three sedan classes to six?

So we can take the 120 people that show up at the Nats and and divide this into 20 per class? So everyone can make an A or B main?

I think we should break it down even further. Lets break down stock into Sportsman Stock, Expert Stock, and Pro Stock. Then lets offer those in 4 cell and 6 cell. That is six new classes right there. Then break down 19T and mod the same way, and we now have 18 classes at the Nats.

Everyone, regardless of talent and ability can make the main at the Nats! How Delightful!

After all, we are Americans, and we are ENTITLED to be really good at something, even if it means creating a category for us to compete in.

The motto is, I don't suck, I just don't have the (insert various equipment here - batteries/motors/tires/bodies/ballcups/shock pistons) that Barry Baker has access to.

I can't wait to be the 2005 ROAR 191.3mm, 55.5oz, 23turn, 22degree, 5cell, 33% sponsored National Champion.
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry Baker
I totally disagree with this(my opinion).....

Spec tires are great for all forms of racing....

there are soooooooooooooo many diff compounds of tires out there , that the racers would have to bring 2 boxes of tires and only maybe have one run each to test them for the track itself...not to mention all the inserts that are out there(flavor of the day inserts)....

with spec tires we have more time to work on cars and the race comes down to the best set up car and the best driver....

Just my .02$

Barry
I agree about the spec tire situation but I feel that the spec tire should always be what will work in most conditions. The take off's are a cool tire that seems to be working in many different situations. When we had the H13's that tire (to me) wasn't the best tire to have as a spec tire.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:33 AM   #11
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I used to agree with the idea, but after participating, it has changed my mind. To me, if your going to a national, you can run different tires at local practices to get a good idea of "what you like" before you go. Just like a standard set-up you have a standard tire that's your favorite.

Plus, like Roy said, choosing the tire puts more of an emphasis on the team's mental ability to keep up with the track and not just driving (which I'm not saying that the driver shouldn't matter). NASCAR or other racing affiliates don't tell drivers "you have to run this exact air pressure all race long". (Inserts analogy). Again, this is stuff that's tested throughout the year not just the two days prior to the nats qualifying. It's not like you have 10 brand new inserts to try for the first time, it's stuff you already have experience with.

Keeps costs down- Hardly!! Anyone that tells you the takeoff 27 doesn't fall off after two runs is full of it. Why do they offer you 2 sets to qualify when there's 4 rounds, then another set for the mains, and ANOTHER set for making the A. We all know if you want to compete you have to buy ALL these tires.

Not to mention, for TRUE race trim practice, you need to put on a new set every two practice runs, because that's what you will do when you race. $25 every 2 packs for the "privateer". Do the math, your hardly saving money.

Money is part of it (any racing), the privateer racer has to buy his/her batts, motors, brushes, etc.. I know people who will go buy $300 worth of batts for the one race to "try" and be competitive, what's supplying your own tires when you compare it to this.

One last point and then I'll be quiet- If ROAR is big on control tire, how come at the carpet races they don't hand out a specific foam compound, it's the same principal. (Do I want to run Jaco, or TRC, or BSR, and THEN what compound and what diameter). There's almost as much in foam preperation as there is in rubber decisions. They could handout a specific compound tire to each class, and tell you how many you get (run whatever diameter you want, but this is all you get until mains). This eliminates cost more than the rubber deal, because you don't see the factory with half a dozen sets of tires in each pit, all different diamters to play with and so forth. They want to TRY and use cost effectiveness on asphalt but not carpet, what's the difference.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:41 AM   #12
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Brandon, you are so right!
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:41 AM   #13
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I am not busting on ROAR in any way, I will still race under whatever rules, they're the same for everyone. They make the rules I don't, it's just my side of things. I think sometimes ROAR catches more slack than they should. The ROAR prestige has seemed like it has fallen a little over the past few years, but what rules do all other big races say that they go by, so I will still attend ROAR races. Just wanted to make sure people do not think it's a shot at ROAR in any way.
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:03 AM   #14
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If you ran many "big" races before they started using a spec tire, you know how much time and money it does save. If you want to be really competitive in any "big" race, you would always show up with at least 2-3 different types of tire and at least that many inserts. Then whichever tire and insert you dedided on, you would have to make sure you had enough for a new set for every qualifyier and main. With a spec tire, you know what your running, you know what it's going to cost, there's no mystery.

As for "To me, if your going to a national, you can run different tires at local practices to get a good idea of "what you like" before you go. Just like a standard set-up you have a standard tire that's your favorite." The only way this works is if your local track is the same or very similar to the track at the event you are going to. If you race on a parking lot in Oregon, where the track temp is 85F and sprayed with sugar water and your going to California, running on a track thats 140F and sprayed with VHT, there is no way the same tires are going to work.
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SirSpeedy
So let me understand this -

You want to double the classes at a ROAR On-road Nats? Going from three sedan classes to six?

So we can take the 120 people that show up at the Nats and and divide this into 20 per class? So everyone can make an A or B main?

I think we should break it down even further. Lets break down stock into Sportsman Stock, Expert Stock, and Pro Stock. Then lets offer those in 4 cell and 6 cell. That is six new classes right there. Then break down 19T and mod the same way, and we now have 18 classes at the Nats.

Everyone, regardless of talent and ability can make the main at the Nats! How Delightful!

After all, we are Americans, and we are ENTITLED to be really good at something, even if it means creating a category for us to compete in.

The motto is, I don't suck, I just don't have the (insert various equipment here - batteries/motors/tires/bodies/ballcups/shock pistons) that Barry Baker has access to.

I can't wait to be the 2005 ROAR 191.3mm, 55.5oz, 23turn, 22degree, 5cell, 33% sponsored National Champion.

I really think your on to something here..... lets do this even at the club level!
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