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Reflex Suspension Dynamics (RSD) TC6 Upgrades (vertical ball studs, pistons,etc)

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Reflex Suspension Dynamics (RSD) TC6 Upgrades (vertical ball studs, pistons,etc)

Old 07-29-2015, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Everything looks pretty standard, however on lower bite, I would try:

-Lighter rear oil, like 2k
-Spool in the front- this will pull the car out of the corner instead of forcing the rear to push it, which might be why you are loose.
-Raise your outer links by about a mm f/r to get some more camber gain.

Also, how cold is it in Kiwiland right now? Maybe the shock oil is a bit thick? Heavier oil in the front can create a bit of over rotation on exit. Maybe try 32.5 all around?
Hey Cristian,

Its winter over here at the moment, so the track temp is around 10-15deg Celsius. I'll give the 2k in the rear diff a try, but the spool makes the car under-steer really badly (13.5T Boosted). I do have a spare spool so will give it a try this weekend if the weather plays ball - along with your other suggestions!

Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated! I will let you know how I get on

Glen
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:15 PM
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My order arrived today Thanks Christian!

Was very happy to see the progressive yellow, gold and silver springs in the envelope Awesome!

I will test chassis and clamps on thursday. Right now I use progressive springs front and rear. Thanks to you I now have a finer choice between the Xray progressive springs.
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:58 PM
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let me know how it goes!
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
My order arrived today Thanks Christian!

Was very happy to see the progressive yellow, gold and silver springs in the envelope Awesome!

I will test chassis and clamps on thursday. Right now I use progressive springs front and rear. Thanks to you I now have a finer choice between the Xray progressive springs.
I've gone back to using the RSD Silvers on my T4'15 recently with really good results, definitely a great option to have in the box. For me they have a bit less overall grip, but improve bump handling and corner speed, so a really useful option.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:10 PM
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As promised now the report of my tests.

I changed the chassis yesterday and was a little sad about the tweak. Because of the milled upper surface it bows upwards. Additionaly it was tweaked along the longitudal axis. Luckily nearly all tweak was gone after it was installed.

At first I had to drive four batteries to clean the line from all the dust that accumulated over the week. Then the track (medium grip outdoor asphalt, 30-37*C air, 67*C asphalt) had enough grip to start evaluate the changes. The chassis itself felt very similar to the standard chassis, a little bit more aggressive. Laptimes were ok from the start, with the track still improving. Overall balance was a little understeering into the corner.



After two runs I installed the first brace in front. Initially the car had the steering I missed.



Another battery later I tried the second brace in the rear. The car was super nice and constant to drive. The line was very easy to follow and the laptimes stayed inside two tenth. Overall it was fast, but I couldn't beat todays best laptime (one tenth away).



Meanwhile the temperatures had gone up. That is the temperature of the table surface in the shadow



So now I removed the rear brace and started to change the springs. Before I drove with Xray 2.5-2.8 all around. I took the front ones out and put the RSD progressive silver in. The car drove like before. So I changed the rear ones for the RSD progressive gold.
I needed the first battery to adapt to the car. Then came the second run with this setup Awesome! The car was on rails, predictable and fast. I never was that fast in hot conditions and matched my fasted times this year.

So it was a very productive first day with all the new parts. Never would have thought the braces can change the car that much. The springs are a very nice addition to the strange progressive Xray springs and a an inexpensive tuning option.
The chassis itself worked nice, but I think in medium asphalt conditions it maybe couldn't play all its cards to its full advantage.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:46 PM
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Dale, you have the old springs. These are slightly different, they are made from different wire this time around. The spring feels like it generates more bite and more corner speed. We are even using them on carpet now.

Good report Kevin. I am glad you matched your fastest times.

I understand about the bowing issues it sort of is a by product of the design, but it should not decrease performance.

To go on a side rant that frustrates me so much: chassis tweak is one of the biggest misconcenptions in RC. I have seen expert pro drivers think it makes a difference and talk about how important it is for your chassis to be flat, and honestly this could not be further from the truth. In plain, crass English, it's a crock of $**t.

I have seen drivers obssess about having their shock collars all turned around the same amount on pre load, same numbers on a droop gauge and making sure their chassis is perfectly flat on a surface before installation and then, they never put their car on a tweak station. These guys are always the ones that complain their cars are tweaked. They'll go back into the pits take all their tires off, loosen up all their top deck screws and put the car on a set up system to get everything aligned again and once again, never put it on a tweak station.

Now, I am not going to say I am the world authority on chassis tweak, but I have collected empirical data which proves that a chassis not being perfectly flat (trust me, I have run my share of them!) your shock collars not being perfectly even and even your camber being a little off will not make the car one bit slower, less consistent or act tweaked if it is balanced out on a tweak station.

Now, it is important to re set your top deck after hard impacts, and you have to make sure your car is as close to having the same pre load as possible, but this is not nearly as important as a tweak station. Now this is why:

Manufacturing tolerances in our industry has gotten really good, however this is all between 0.1-0.15mm per part. This can add up over a car to where you have a car that might have a 0.3-0.6mm difference in dimensions from one side to the other. Couple that with the fact that all of our screws are right side threads and you torque everyhing in the same direction and this can lead to some really off numbers, especially in the shock tower and toe block areas. When I tighten down towers , I typically push down on the left side for this reason. God forbid you ever check your droop over ride height when you set everything with droop blocks, the numbers can be 0.5-1.5mm off. Springs can only be manufactured with a 0.5mm tolerance (most springs in the industry are matched by height, because they have to be).

To bring this full circle, don't worry about tweak in your parts until they are installed (obviously this does not mean damaged) and don't obssess about everything not being perfectly even and flat. Just invest in a tweak station and set your car on there, make it a part of your program. My cars never drive tweaked, they always steer the same left to right and a lot of the time, when I am testing prototypes, my chassis are far from perfect. I always set the top deck, set my shock towers and then before I put the car on the track, it's on a tweak station. Car is always perfect.

And Kevin please don't think this is directed at you. You drove it and saw no discernible difference. This is important to see. I have dealt with many experts that think it matters who furthermore disseminate inaccurate information.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:51 PM
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Oh, and yes, the bulkhead braces make a big difference. I have been saying it for a while. I am glad you agree
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Oh, and yes, the bulkhead braces make a big difference. I have been saying it for a while. I am glad you agree
What does the braces do?
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:31 PM
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It stiffens the bulkheads which move the flex from the bulkheads closer to the center of the chassis of the car. The decreased twisting of the chassis at the bulkheads creates more on power traction at the end of the chassis at which they are being used. I have found this beneficial mostly in medium high to high grip conditions, carpet or asphalt.

Like anything it is a tuning aid. It's not going to magically make your car better, but it can be an improvement under certain conditions. More than anything, they increase response.
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Good report Kevin. I am glad you matched your fastest times.

And Kevin please don't think this is directed at you. You drove it and saw no discernible difference. This is important to see. I have dealt with many experts that think it matters who furthermore disseminate inaccurate information.
Thanks, I had fun

I always put my car on the tweak station (with tires) to make sure the load per tire is even. Nevertheless I also make sure the weight distribution (with setup wheels and clamps instead springs) is even and other details and sometimes maybe look too much for perfection. In the end the spring collars always have to even out.
Where I am totally on your side is that touring cars forgive a lot of mistakes like lost or loose screws, wrong values on camber/caster, broken c-hubs, and so on. So tweak is a minor or no problem. Once I even drove my car intentionally tweaked (so uneven tire loads) in a race, because with setup I didn't find the balance I wanted

Just one thing I would think (have no chance to prove or check if true) is that if the chassis has already tweak and after everything is installed this tweak vanishes, then there is already a hidden tension in the car that could lead to unsymetrical flex. Maybe you can share your opinion about my thought.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:47 PM
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I don't think this would influence flex to a point that you would be able to detect while driving it. I would equate it to chassis delamination. It happens at different rates and in different spots. Then you have to factor in manufacturing process. Is everything layed out perfectly with the sheet? All too much to worry about and things that don't make a difference when it comes to lap times. You yourself said you were never before able to go this fast in this temperature. Sure you ran springs that were different, but your chassis had a slight bow from material removal and did not slow you down one bit.

Flex is more going to be dictated by bulkhead layout and overall chassis shape. The rest is small percentage differences on something (the chassis) that maybe influences 5% of the overall speed capacity that the chassis can go around the track (so we are talking about 0.01-0.03% of the total package) of the car. If it ever makes a difference.

Last I checked the XRAY and the yokomo both have big motor pockets in the left side of the car and they seem to be the best overall chassis kits in the market today. If this does not create assymetrical flex, I don't know what would.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:38 PM
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Hey Christian,

How do you feel about chassis tweak on a touring car?

Oh, and do you rotate your TC tires or just leave them until the sweeper eats one of the four?
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:38 PM
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I don't understand what you mean by chassis tweak?

You mean the chassis is not completely flat? Or you hit the wall and the car gets tweaked?

You want as little as is possible. Most of the time if a chassis is not completely flat, it will flatten out with a top deck. If after this, it still has a bit of tweak, you can usually tune it out with a tweak station. Now this is not the ideal situation, you want everything as flat and square as possible, but "perfection" is unattainable. And a un-installed chassis that may have 1-1.5mm of bend, twist or any other "tweak" will not perform any worse than that one that has 0.2-0.3 (which is as flat as they will get.)

There are obvious extreme examples of this and if you have something that is 1/8-1/4 inch of tweak, you will never be able to set it on a tweak station.
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Dale, you have the old springs. These are slightly different, they are made from different wire this time around. The spring feels like it generates more bite and more corner speed.
Order placed for the new ones. We have a few low grip tracks over here so something with more bite would be awesome.

I've just started playing around with the Xray PSS progressive insets too, which have potential. I think it makes sense to use a progressive spring with these, so will try them with your silvers.
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Old 08-07-2015, 05:01 PM
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Fantastic. I think you will enjoy them. The new silver is a little bit stiffer than the old silver, but it has been really good for us even on carpet. Many times on carpet, we have been running the gold in the rear with the silver in the front as well.
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