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Old 06-24-2011, 12:48 PM   #61
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We are starting to have a spec class for M chassis and 1/10 tc at LHS. Parking lot property owner gave us the ok sign to setup a temp track with dots and cones. We might even consider getting pvc pipes and different angled pipe connectors. I hope on-road can get popular again, it should be the least difficult to setup a track, that's what made parking lot racing so big in 90s.

Thats cool you have an M chassis spec class. I love those cars.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:53 PM   #62
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best racing series imo:
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


as I was watching this, I noticed that this series puts strength in other areas such as fan service. RC lacks this general "friendliness"
But I am a racer, not a salesperson...
You can start cheap, but in the longer run, you will spend less if you buy decent stuff from the beginning.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:02 PM   #63
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Hi, I agree with you. I've seen many tracks come and go within last 15 - 18 years here at Mpls/St Paul, MN. We had really good tracks that were capable of hosting national event. Once drivers get more skilled and moved up to next level, in perfect world there would be another batch of new drivers (novice level). However, lots of people don't stay in r/c hobby for long time. Most of people I raced with are no longer involved in the hobby. I'm glad that I am still working part time at LHS (12th year next Jan) which kept me interested in the hobby.
What keeps people racing? What keeps you racing? is it because you want to win? I've seen many people come and go simply due to the fact that they can't win. I don't think that's the essence of racing. Winning is important, but that is not the ultimate goal. I think we need to think on what keeps us racing, and work on building that up to make it more appealing to people.

One thing for sure, the pre-requisite is that you have to like cars.
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:31 PM   #64
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What drew me to on-road was the scale realism. The tamiya TA02 was so cool when they came out. Then of course the handleing and speed played a big part. I think what influenced the resurgence of off road was the Short course trucks realism to the real thing.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:16 PM   #65
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iirc, that's how tamiya created the 4wd sedan class off the Manta Ray buggy.

people get bored of true spec class racing. once they get used to the speed, some of them move up to the faster classes. But then the spec class dies out, and the guys that stuck with it eventually disappears. Then after a while the whole track undergoes a "omg, we need more racers" and new "spec" class is born. This cycle repeats.
There's a whole bunch of Vintage Trans Am, GT and TCS racers who would disagree with you wholeheartedly. Spec racing IS what rc should be about. All that ROAR level stuff should be for those that REALLY can or want to make the investment in time and money to compete at that level.
Granted, people MAY move into a faster class but that should NEVER be because of boredom. The excitement of building a car, racing a car and winning with that car are the same no matter what class you're in so if everybody is on board with a SPEC program and everybody is encouraged to enjoy that program theres no reason for the scenario you described. VTA especially has proven THAT !!
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:54 PM   #66
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There's a whole bunch of Vintage Trans Am, GT and TCS racers who would disagree with you wholeheartedly. Spec racing IS what rc should be about. All that ROAR level stuff should be for those that REALLY can or want to make the investment in time and money to compete at that level.
Granted, people MAY move into a faster class but that should NEVER be because of boredom. The excitement of building a car, racing a car and winning with that car are the same no matter what class you're in so if everybody is on board with a SPEC program and everybody is encouraged to enjoy that program theres no reason for the scenario you described. VTA especially has proven THAT !!
That's true as long as we have constant new participants. But in most cases we see more people leave than join. People also get discouraged when the same guy always wins. In TGP, they have a beginner class where the previous champion cannot race in, so others have a chance at winning. But again, that only works as long as there are new racers. You try to add too many classes with limited amount of people, it just doesn't work out.
I understand the fun of working on cars, and having close battles, thus the reason why I still do RC, but the reality is that that's not enough for a lot of people. We have a population crisis here

We'd appreciate it if you could pass some dedicated racers over here.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:07 AM   #67
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Everyone that has commented in this thread makes valid points but what it really comes down to is a personís drive to compete and win.

When i first started out I was bad like most beginners, hitting corners 70% of the time and breaking my xray 50% of the time in the pursuit of going faster. Car setup was part of this but it really came down to experience. I could give my car to a good driver and they would go .5 to 1 second faster per lap than me.

After 4 years of racing 1-3 times a week and throwing in some practice, I'm now a top driver in our area, the guy that's in the top 3 all the time. To get to this point, like most the pros we see in articles and at the national races, you have to want to learn and have the drive to win. No pun intended. This requires putting in time at the track. Iím sure that anyone reading or commenting on this thread would agree.

Yes, cost of cars and tires do play a roll, off-road in general is cheaper in these 2 areas. Traxxas really turned around the off-road market with a low cost cool product, the Short Course truck. I'm not sure if on-road will ever see a product like this.

If any manufactures are reading this thread a good RTR touring car in the $250-$300 range would really help. The last decent car that was available in this category was the XXX-S, and before that the TC3.


I think we lose beginners in on-road because they find out it's not that easy to go fast and don't want to spend the time to get better, even with their lower cost and possibly out dated cars. Off-road is similar but it seems like it's easier to reach that mid-level category where more people live. A big part of this is due to the simplicity of setting up an off-road SC or buggy. On-road is far more sensitive to setup and the cars break much easier due to speed and track barriers.

Off-road is where it's at now, I however believe some years in the future, on-road will return hopefully less than more. When I started this hobby in 2007 our local Hobbytown, racing in a parking lot, would get 80 entries on average with previous years close to the same. National on-road races where at their peak for entries and regularly sold out in a short period of time. The following year HT dropped to 25 entries on average. National race entries where cut in half. Why did this happen, a big part of it was the economy, this was the year oil sky rocketed and unemployment started to rise, so the disposable income for many dropped. I believe it has started to return in some areas, ours being one of them, but Traxxes changed the focus of where people want to start racing with the Short Course truck. Which is now dominated by other manufactures like Losi, AE, HPI etc.

Those that I race with that have 15+ yearsí experience have seen this happen before, switching between on-road and off-road, it's cyclical like anything else. When you've done the same thing for x years it starts to get old so you try something new. The same thing happened in our area. Luckily our local carpet track owner loves carpet racing to death and won't stop until there's no one left. Our other track, which is run by a club, has a lucky arrangement and a core group of dedicated on-roaders. A good sign that on-road may be on somewhat of an up rise again will be large race entries. I think Snowbirds this year was up from the last 2, ROAR Carpet Nats was up, Reedy had a good showing, and weíll see how the other big on-road races fair.

What I donít understand is why more people donít run pan cars, in general itís two to three hundred dollars less to get started in these classes. Yes you have to deal with foam tires which are a pain but itís good place to start. Maybe itís due to the outdoor effect, pan cars are not that great on parking lot tracks and a large part of the on-road racing occurring during the summer is outdoors.

Itís difficult to give a definitive answer to this question, as on-roaders we just need to hope off-road runs its course in the next few years and people move to on-road.

One comment to anyone reading this thread, if you see a beginner start racing on-road help them as much as possible to quicken the learning curve so they donít get frustrated and quit.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:05 AM   #68
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Most opinions on here are correct. There isn't a cheap price point to get into onroad as well as there is not an easy way to get around the track (handling wise compared to offroad) etc etc.

I think onroad shoots peoples pride and ego right in the face. For example, I am the RD at Mikes hobby shop in Texas. We have an onroad and thriving offroad track. Offroad lap times are ~ 25 sec. on average where as onroad is ~ 12-13 seconds. So, on the off road track, you are getting lapped two times, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. On road, if you are the same amount of time back from the leader, that makes you 4 laps back. Its a shot to the ego and pride. People do not like to lose, no matter how often they say they are racing for "fun".

The answer isn't to make the onroad tracks bigger haha. That would be silly. The answer is to make the cars slower and less expensive but "track ready". Vta has shown a growth here in Dallas because they are cheap and the fast racers do not race in the class with the intention of winning. Average skill level racers win this class every thursday and saturday and they are very happy with the results, thus, they keep coming back.

-Chris

Ps. Im happy to announce on-road has grown in Dallas over the last 4 months during a time when it usually dies completely (summer).
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:58 AM   #69
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I just purchased a Tamiya M-chassis M06. great car and it basically is like running a spec class, because of being limited to the 540 motor,you can't change a spur gear, and your limited to only 3 pinion sizes. My LHS is still running a M- class which is great. On road racing is still huge in japan and china .
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