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Old 03-29-2011, 01:42 AM   #1
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Default Checking camber

Hi,

what's the most accurate way, set up station or gauge against the wheel/tyre ? Some people say use a set up station others say measure against the wheels/tyres your running. I know that when I set it on my Hudy set up station and then check it with gauge against the wheel/tyre there's alot of difference.

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:10 AM   #2
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I'm no pro on setup, and I'm still waiting on my setup station to arrive but I am pretty certain your setup station will be more accurate or else I'm wasting money on buying one Spin your wheel when it's mounted and look at how much it wobbles, you can't get an truly accurate reading with a camber gauge because your measuring one section of an imperfect wheel. Doing multiple readings at different parts of the wheel will give you an idea of the average camber which I suppose some people prefer, but I would think you would want the true camber and omit the wheel irregularities. I'm no pro but that makes sense to me
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by BrodieMan View Post
I'm no pro on setup, and I'm still waiting on my setup station to arrive but I am pretty certain your setup station will be more accurate or else I'm wasting money on buying one Spin your wheel when it's mounted and look at how much it wobbles, you can't get an truly accurate reading with a camber gauge because your measuring one section of an imperfect wheel. Doing multiple readings at different parts of the wheel will give you an idea of the average camber which I suppose some people prefer, but I would think you would want the true camber and omit the wheel irregularities. I'm no pro but that makes sense to me
Ronald Volker is a pro and he has just posted in the BD-5 thread that he only uses ride height, camber and droop gauge. No station.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:35 AM   #4
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I wonder what his mechanic uses I kid, I kid. That's awesome having him on the forum, just checked out the BD-5 thread, he's going to have one busy PM inbox.

I'm just going by what seems logical to me, and yes I'm no pro But a setup station does a lot more than just camber so if you have it why not use it unless you just need to quickly make an adjustment. Personally I'm buying a setup station for more for toe measurements and steering throw more than camber.

I currently use a precision ruler to eye the gap between it and the top of the tire for camber. I use my setup board marks and check the gap from my rear tire, which I know the toe angle of, as a visual for that degree. Works well for me.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:52 AM   #5
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I've always gone with the theory of checking your car settings "as it sits". Say you use your set-up station and get camber to 2, then put your wheels on and it's 1.5. Now, when your car goes through the corner, it doesn't behave as though the wheels are 2 just because Mr Hudy says so, it does whatever happens when the wheels are at the ACTUAL camber
Mind you, i'm not very fast, so I may be wrong!
Set up stations are great for working out exact steering throw etc, and checking left-right differences in camber and caster. Sometimes you see a difference and it's because of a bent part or wrong part on one side (how many times have I done that one!)
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:07 PM   #6
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I don't use a station any more. Just because I think the best way is to measure the settings when the car is sitting as it would when its on the track. The station isn't going to get the car ride height correct so I think that is where the problems come from between the stations measured setting and the actual settings.

The only ball ache bit is the front toe. So I use half my station every now and then to check that is still correct.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housey View Post
I don't use a station any more. Just because I think the best way is to measure the settings when the car is sitting as it would when its on the track. The station isn't going to get the car ride height correct so I think that is where the problems come from between the stations measured setting and the actual settings.

The only ball ache bit is the front toe. So I use half my station every now and then to check that is still correct.
Same here, these are luxery items made for checking toe basically, which I usually just eyeball anyway... everything else can be done with basic equipment. There are definitely better things to spend $ on, LOL.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:41 PM   #8
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Yea, takes bloody ages as well. Its way faster to just crack a camber gauge out and do it that way.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:43 PM   #9
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Just go with the one that gives the best feel for the car. And if you can't tell the difference, then it's moot.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:57 PM   #10
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The most accurate way is with a station...however the best way is up to personal opinion. I personally still say a station for this reason...wheels warp. So if you check your camber as the car sits then just rotate the wheel a little bit you will get a different camber measurement. So there really is no accurate "as the car sits" measurement since it will change as the wheel rotates. So the best way to get a setup that you can repeat and always get the same results is with a station.
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:28 PM   #11
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I used to use a set-up station, but it became ridiculous after a while for day to day setup changes. I use a droop gauge, ride heights gauge and camber gauge...that's it. I haven't used my set up station in months. Now if you need to measure steering throw, camber gain, caster, and things like that a set up station is the way to go.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:08 PM   #12
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I never used a setup station.. then purchased a cheap plastic one.. and my car felt more planted on the road then it ever had. Don't use it at the track unless I have had an accident or its a big meet. Used to do everything by eye (doesn't help that I am blind. Had 2 degrees different toe on each side and way different steering throw.. I thought the car felt good lol)

If u are just after camber readings.. use a camber gauge.. but to setup up ur car get a cheap setup station.. I use a plastic hudy one.. friend has a integy one and they are both very good for the price. Have the same readings as the expensive hudy one and are just as accurate imo.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:34 PM   #13
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I started off by setting ride height, then getting everything else close by eye and with a camber gauge, then re-check everything and then set up-travel over ride height and re-check everything again. I did okay like that for a while, but a few months ago I picked up a used setup station and a few other things in an amazing deal from a guy getting out of the hobby. My car felt incredible after the first time I used it. It's definitely easier to get everything set up precisely with a setup station. Not absolutely essential for everyone though. One of the fast guys at the local track sets up everything by eye and does quite well like that, but I think my perception is a bit too warped to be able to do that. To me it will look good, but everything will actually be off by a degree or 2 if I check it on the setup station.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:00 PM   #14
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I suspect the difference in readings from camber gauge to station comes from slop and the difference in the location of the contact patch for each tool. With tires on the car and neg camber, the inner edge of the tire touches the ground closer to center line than the axle hex which pulls out on the upper camber link. With a station on, it touches the ground outside of the axle hex which pushes the upper camber link inward effectively shortening the link and indicating more camber than a gauge on tire method.

IMHO...

Stations are precise but not accurate
Gauge on tire is accurate but not always precise.

Credit to BigDog JL for the idea. Not my own.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
Stations are precise but not accurate
Gauge on tire is accurate but not always precise.
Exactly what he said lol

I suppose if you know the correction factor for your station then that is slightly better (i.e. you know when the station says 2 degrees it is actually 1.5 etc)

I do rotate my wheels to try and introduce a bit more precision, but tbh I never really see a difference so guess my wheels must stay pretty true.

Possible untrue wheels and not being able to do the front toe easily are the only downsides to not using a station as far as I can see. Unless like someone else said you want to get heavy in to camber gain and all that.

Trackside at a club meet basic tools are a lot faster and easier to use. if you have a bumpy quali run then you can check if the car is straight and true much more easily.

I guess both have their advantages and disadvantages. Lets just say I won't be getting rid of my basic tools or my station. They both have their place.
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