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Old 03-23-2011, 07:11 PM   #1
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Default Novak Ballistic Motor Timing

Does anyone have any experience with using a Novak Ballistic 17.5 (stock racing) in touring sedan and increasing the mechanical timing past the 45 deg mark (past the sticker).

I noticed that the RPM can increase from approx 20,000 to upwards of 40,000 rpm (current draw increases from 1 amp to 16 amps).

Has anyone ever tried this in a 5 min race? I would assume that one would need to change the FDR dramatically, say from 4 to 6?

Is this what stock racers typically do? or do we know that this is not a good idea?

The way I see this, my 17.5 is now an 8.5 (since the Kv goes from 2200 to 5200).

Appreciate anybody's experience.

Thx
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:18 PM   #2
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I have run Ballistic 17.5 in stock class in 2wd buggy and Short course truck off road tracks. Either gear it till the motor temp is max. (150-160) OR speed controller with timing the best way I have found too run a 17.5. I dont think the Ballistic will perform the way you want it to with endbell timing that high.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:30 PM   #3
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When I was running a motor with a spec controller (non-boost/turbo), what I found was that when I increased the timing to what I figured was close to 60 the motor got really hot, so I had to run a different gear. The car was really fast down the straight, but it sucked in the infield, becuase the motor wasnt making enough torque at the low rpms to pull the car out of the corners.

The other problem was the motor wasnt making enough torque to fully accelerate the car properly, and it never really reached a high speed until it was 75% down the straight which in my mind is way to late on our small technical track.

So there is a fine line, you can put a ton of timing into the motor to make massive RPMs, but the motor will not make it to those rpm range under load! So you will go slower. I have found from my own testing that 45deg is around the best power/torque setting, depending on the gearing.

If your track doesnt have a lot of bite to it, then having a higher timing setting to get rid of some of the torque coming out of the corner can sometimes help.


Shawn.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
When I was running a motor with a spec controller (non-boost/turbo), what I found was that when I increased the timing to what I figured was close to 60 the motor got really hot, so I had to run a different gear. The car was really fast down the straight, but it sucked in the infield, becuase the motor wasnt making enough torque at the low rpms to pull the car out of the corners.

The other problem was the motor wasnt making enough torque to fully accelerate the car properly, and it never really reached a high speed until it was 75% down the straight which in my mind is way to late on our small technical track.

So there is a fine line, you can put a ton of timing into the motor to make massive RPMs, but the motor will not make it to those rpm range under load! So you will go slower. I have found from my own testing that 45deg is around the best power/torque setting, depending on the gearing.

If your track doesnt have a lot of bite to it, then having a higher timing setting to get rid of some of the torque coming out of the corner can sometimes help.


Shawn.
Is that 45 degrees motor timing or motor + esc timing.
And is that 45 degrees taking into account that Ballistics are factory set at 30 degrees without any endbell timing? Thus only 15 endbell timing?

From my experience Ballistics tend to take more heat punishment than most other motors on the market so have found them to be a little more ideal at stock level were you need to run a finer balance between lower FDR and higher turbo setups.
But what I am noticing more and more nowadays is that the end RPM is not as important as that initial burst of acceleration regardless of track size and technicality. How you achieve that without compromising too much I guess is the key in the end.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
Does anyone have any experience with using a Novak Ballistic 17.5 (stock racing) in touring sedan and increasing the mechanical timing past the 45 deg mark (past the sticker).

I noticed that the RPM can increase from approx 20,000 to upwards of 40,000 rpm (current draw increases from 1 amp to 16 amps).

Has anyone ever tried this in a 5 min race? I would assume that one would need to change the FDR dramatically, say from 4 to 6?

Is this what stock racers typically do? or do we know that this is not a good idea?

The way I see this, my 17.5 is now an 8.5 (since the Kv goes from 2200 to 5200).

Appreciate anybody's experience.

Thx
Yes, I use a Ballistic 17.5 and a GTB in TC5 witha 4.11 ratio using rubber tires. I set the timing at the 45* mark and I use a motor fan to kep the temps down a little. After a 6 min race mine comes off at about 140* If you have torque issues or feeling a little flat out of the hole set your min drive to the max. I can say that Ihave no issues with performance and am very happy with it. You shouldn't go beyond the sticker on a Ballistic because they check every motor and place the sticker on it in the right spot so the timing you select is what it has.

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Old 03-26-2011, 11:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by emerge View Post
Is that 45 degrees motor timing or motor + esc timing.
And is that 45 degrees taking into account that Ballistics are factory set at 30 degrees without any endbell timing? Thus only 15 endbell timing?

From my experience Ballistics tend to take more heat punishment than most other motors on the market so have found them to be a little more ideal at stock level were you need to run a finer balance between lower FDR and higher turbo setups.
But what I am noticing more and more nowadays is that the end RPM is not as important as that initial burst of acceleration regardless of track size and technicality. How you achieve that without compromising too much I guess is the key in the end.

When I give 45 deg end bell, that is using the N=30deg of timing, so moving the sensor 3 marks over. When running with out turbo/boost, I have found that to be the best compremise over high rpm/torque, and keeping the motor temp in check. All I run is the Novak motors, and wont convert to anything else!

When running with turbo/boost ESC, I move the sensor ring the other direction, to the 15deg mark, and I found with my ESC that to be the best position (Hobbywing 120A 1S)

Shawn.
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