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Old 02-04-2003, 09:07 AM   #361
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Damn! that took a long time to read.

This is a great thread! glad I found it.

Thanks JDM for bringing it to the front. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:43 AM   #362
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nanook
Damn! that took a long time to read.

This is a great thread! glad I found it.

Thanks JDM for bringing it to the front. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

Lots of good reading on this thread.. it' need to have a bump every now and then

-Dave
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Old 02-06-2003, 07:18 AM   #363
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what effect would i get in general if i widen the front in relation to the rear wheel base width?

as in the surikarns's 414m2 worlds setup ....the suspension arms were raise to about 4-7mm does this only lower the CG or will it lower the roll center as the CG moves down
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Old 02-06-2003, 10:06 AM   #364
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Default Faster corner speed like pro

Guys;

What are your thoughs on steering angle verses corner speed scrub?
Would you recommend adjusting chassis/suspension for Maximum Front Grip, then using ATV to dial out excess.
My idea being that the less the wheels have to turn in a corner the less speed will be scrubed off due to tire slip. Of course now you may have create a loose condition in the back.

Is this a reasonable assumption or is it just not feasable?

Thanks,

Last edited by popsracer; 02-06-2003 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 02-06-2003, 11:59 AM   #365
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Quote:
Originally posted by fReShJiVe
what effect would i get in general if i widen the front in relation to the rear wheel base width?
The effect you will see if nothing else is changed is more front grip & less rear grip. Its not so much that you made the front of the car wider its that you have softened the front suspension.

Quote:
as in the surikarns's 414m2 worlds setup ....the suspension arms were raise to about 4-7mm does this only lower the CG or will it lower the roll center as the CG moves down
Sirikarn got two things from raising the pivot point for the lower arms - the arms parallel to the track and moving the RC closer to the CG. He didn't affect the CG because the car was already as low as possible.
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Old 02-06-2003, 12:07 PM   #366
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Default Re: Faster corner speed like pro

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
What are your thoughs on steering angle verses corner speed scrub?Thanks,
When most people talk about scrubbing corner speed with 'too much' steering they have a car with a push. Their choices are:

1. back out of throttle and wait for more steering

2. crash

Most people try option #1 after tiring of option #2.

The other problem can be incorrect ackerman, where the tires have too much toe in/out but only during a turn.

Generally, the looser the car the faster it is through the turns... until you crash.
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Old 02-07-2003, 07:33 PM   #367
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a LESSER width on any end will MEAN MORE grip on that end .....
and vice versa ....

pops : get ur hands as smooth as posible ... and tune it as loose as posible ... then use radio gear to aid
good for qualifiying

but for race- try to downtune on looseness.... as u will be battling out with other cars on turns ...
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Old 02-08-2003, 01:47 AM   #368
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Default Re: Re: Faster corner speed like pro

Quote:
Originally posted by dalem
When most people talk about scrubbing corner speed with 'too much' steering they have a car with a push. Their choices are:

1. back out of throttle and wait for more steering

2. crash

Generally, the looser the car the faster it is through the turns... until you crash.
That may be, generally. But when you get more advanced (as Pops is, or seems to be. . .heh heh) there are more ways to scrub speed through a turn. . .

excessive body roll will scrub speed without inducing a push - this can be solved through droop adjustment or spring changes

excessive steering angle, making the car try to pull itself through the turn (while you could call this a push, it is a self-induced push rather than one in the car - Thirdplace uses this as his common way to turn. It's hell on front tires, but it works well for him) - this is actually using the fronts to slow the car as well as turn it. That's where adjusting a line to NOT shed speed is beneficial. It's something I'm constantly trying to learn from MarkA.


Personally, I don't like a loose car - I like a balanced car. I'm not amazingly fast, I'm just a good steady driver and I find that if I'm in control I'm faster than if I'm out at and just past that ragged edge.
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Old 02-09-2003, 01:29 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally posted by fReShJiVe
what effect would i get in general if i widen the front in relation to the rear wheel base width?

Hey Jive'

Try the wider front spacers on the front of the Cuda'.. I found that it helps mid corner steering & when going though the twisties

-Dave
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:10 AM   #370
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mcrisp...

pls check you pm... I've sent you one regarding the book...

thanks,, pls reply..

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Old 02-17-2003, 08:22 AM   #371
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Mmm activity on the thread. Let's see...
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:24 AM   #372
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Quote:
Originally posted by fReShJiVe
what effect would i get in general if i widen the front in relation to the rear wheel base width?

as in the surikarns's 414m2 worlds setup ....the suspension arms were raise to about 4-7mm does this only lower the CG or will it lower the roll center as the CG moves down
For one, the front roll centre will be lowered even further. This will result in more grip at that end, particularly mid to corner exit. Entry might feel a bit slower.

Hard to comment about suri's setup - I have not yet done an accurate analysis (i.e. vernier caliper accurate) of it.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:30 AM   #373
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Note that what I said above is not 100% true in all cases. For example, for MY 414m setup, its roll centre is -4.8mm front, -2.8mm rear. (pro-roll) EDIT: At a ride height of 5mm

In this case, the intersection of the upperlink and lower arm is below the chassis. So when i increase the trackwidth, it actually lowers the roll centre even further.

If suppose you have an intersection point if the upperlink/lowerarm that is above the tire contact patch, then by decreasing the trackwidth, *should* EDIT: lower the roll centre. NB I have not tried my car with such a setting yet.

Last edited by Alvin; 02-17-2003 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:35 AM   #374
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Default Re: Faster corner speed like pro

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Guys;

What are your thoughs on steering angle verses corner speed scrub?
Hi popsracer! Thanks for your nitro advice in the newbie thread!!!

Now some people determine scrub as the loss of speed as the steering is turned... others determine scrub as the amount of distance the contact patch shifts upon suspension compression.

Now in your case i think it is the first one right? For one I have once set a car that is able to clear all the corners in the track with 50% ATV on my controller. Loose rear end. But when in an actual race situation, my car was actually very very, painfully slow. I believe it is because my car, while able to maintain throttle on my radio, it is not going forward. Kinda like drifting... so in the end I went back to a grip type setup. 100% ATV (actually 88% for me... if I exceed that my servo grinds), i use 100% of the steering in low speed corners, and at the higher speed turns, use less steering.

12th scale pan cars are very good training... funny thing pan cars. The less you steer in high speed corners, the more steering it gets. So i do my training there ;-)
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Old 02-17-2003, 09:58 AM   #375
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Default Re: Re: Faster corner speed like pro

Quote:
Originally posted by Alvin
12th scale pan cars are very good training... funny thing pan cars. The less you steer in high speed corners, the more steering it gets. So i do my training there ;-)
True! Same thing for 1/10th. Fast and very reactive. Makes better drivers, imho. I know I benefit from it. Small actions beget large reactions.
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