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Old 05-25-2002, 11:39 AM   #136
dw
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I don't think you will find one set up that works perfectly regardless of grip level. Different track conditions require different set ups.
There is something you could do if you don't want to keep changing settings though.
The fastest times are always going to be set in the later rounds when the grip level has risen. You could just set your car up for these conditions, then next week just try and drive round the problem till the grip comes up for the later rounds. As the car oversteers when grip is low you should be able to compensate with a careful left thumb. Might make you into a better driver too.
Depends on the severity of the problem though.
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:18 PM   #137
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ok thanks
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:48 PM   #138
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Sosidge, if you are allowed to run traction compound you may want to have 2 sets of tires, run the one set at the beginning with compound, and then switch to the "dry" set when the timing is right.
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Old 05-26-2002, 08:27 AM   #139
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Martin,
Finished a race today! I got a solution for the understeer problem. I raised the rear roll axis, effectively the car still ran a front low rear high axis, but now the entire axis was raised higher.

And with a dual one way setup on a technical track, it was a blast to drive (I did ok but it was great fun!) Off power turn in was so good I actually missed the hair pin (turned too tight) and drove against traffic lol!

Problem is when I compare my car to the other cars on the track, especially the Yok MR4TC SP and Atlas YM34Ts, my car had a lot of body roll. I tried to control the roll with the yellow roll bars, rolled a lot less, but the response of the car went down. Funny thing was i actually did better when the car rolled less.

I didn't dare to try the blue sway bars then. Do you think in such a case (technical track) I should have gone to blue swaybar, or run a harder suspension?

Thanks!

~Alvin
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Old 05-26-2002, 07:09 PM   #140
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Hey Alvin,

I just got back from arace today as well! I think the understeer gods giveth and they takeith away? You solved you understeer problem and for the first time In a very long time I had an understeer problem with my car today.

By the way, I tend to always run the blue sway bars on my car, both front and back. Sometimes I put a yellow one on the back. These 414Ms do like to roll, but not to the point where the car seems lazy. I would try the blue sway bars.

cya,
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Old 05-26-2002, 11:23 PM   #141
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Thanks for the tip Martin! I will try it next time I head down to the track!

BTW, what wt shock oil do you usually use?

~Alvin
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Old 05-27-2002, 01:34 AM   #142
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Hi mcrisp,

You've talked about upper links and their lengths, could you comment a little about lower suspension arm lengths and their effects on handling? In real life formula one cars, for example, I noticed that their suspension arms are very long. What's the reason for this? What variables do car designers need to consider when designing the suspension arm lengths? Thanks.
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:06 AM   #143
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mcrisp,

hi, im trying to find a tad bit more on power steering in my XXX-S. Its actually doing ok overall but i just want that extra speed thru the corner. i dont wanna have to let of the throttle that much as i enter the corner and at the same time i want more sterring as i pull the throttle trigger ..... what are the things you'd consider adjusting - and in what order?

- caster
- shock position
- springs
- droop
- camber link length
- sway bar gauge/thickness

i use a one way and a front sway bar ( 2nd to the thickest bar of 4) and spring (silver) tension in front is one up over the rear end spring (red).

id normally go one down on the spring as a starting point but is that the way u'd go too? and if that dosent totally solve my problem, whats the next thing you'll touch in the set-up?

thanks in advance.
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:33 AM   #144
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ROBORAT: For me if I want more on-power steering, I will make my front downstop more positive. e.g. from +3 to +4.

HTHS, i would love to find out Martin's reply too...

Regards,
Alvin
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:52 AM   #145
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Alvin: thanks for the info. those are actually one of my options. and like you, im curious to see what mcrisp has to say.
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Old 05-28-2002, 06:20 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by ROBORAT
mcrisp,

hi, im trying to find a tad bit more on power steering in my XXX-S. Its actually doing ok overall but i just want that extra speed thru the corner. i dont wanna have to let of the throttle that much as i enter the corner and at the same time i want more sterring as i pull the throttle trigger ..... what are the things you'd consider adjusting - and in what order?

- caster
- shock position
- springs
- droop
- camber link length
- sway bar gauge/thickness

i use a one way and a front sway bar ( 2nd to the thickest bar of 4) and spring (silver) tension in front is one up over the rear end spring (red).

id normally go one down on the spring as a starting point but is that the way u'd go too? and if that dosent totally solve my problem, whats the next thing you'll touch in the set-up?

thanks in advance.
Robart, I'm not Mcrisp by any means, but I can almost assuredly tell you that he will suggest you lower or lessen the front droop (uptravel) assuming it's not too low already. The reason for this is to keep the front suspension fron raising quite as much and hence retaining more weight on the front of the car during accellerated cornering.

If the car still has an on power push or already has too little front droop, then you need to look deeper into your setup for a solution..... like roll centers.

I would suggest you purchase Martin's book. It's very easy to understand and the quick reference sheet is great to have at the track. I mean, for only a few bucks you can't go wrong- and trust me, I wouldn't endorse something if it was a POS.

Hey Martin, check out the EDITABLE setup sheets on our club's website- http://home.midsouth.rr.com/memphisrc/

I worked the hardest on the Mission sheet- it was a beotch, and plus I had to redo it because it's kinda cheesy from Schumacher. If I have enough time I'll try and get a 414M one done for you guys. Post a link to the latest version of the 414M setup sheet if you want me too. No guarantees on time.....
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:48 AM   #147
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Hey BigDogRacing,

Those editable setup sheets are nice! I was in the middle of doing that for the tc3 setup sheet last night, but now I dont have to thanks the sheets... i wont have to read my own handwriting anymore
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Old 05-28-2002, 08:54 AM   #148
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Hi,

Sorry for taking so long to respond...been busy!

Alvin:

the shock oil I use depends on the springs I end up using. with tamiya blue I like to use 50w associated oil. With the Tamiya whites I like to use 60w associated oil. This is just a starting point however.

Potato:

To be honest I have not spent a lot of time thinking about the length of the lower A arm, as this is not somthing that we can typically adjust on the RC cars. Pehaps dw has some comments on this. Having said that, if it was shorter than the upper link then you would have a reduction in camber as the suspension was compressed, which is clearly undersireable. I will have to spend some time thinking more about this question.

ROBORAT:

So it sounds like you are looking for more steering both off-power and on-power. Here are some suggestions to try in order. In general the suggested adjustments to front suspension will help more with the off-power steering and the suggested adjustments to the rear suspension will help more with the on-power steering with the execption of droop/uptravel.

1) Make the rear spring stiffer and/or the front spring softer. Since I am not familiar with the losi spring rates and I don't know what surface you run on it is difficult to suggest which way to go. Sometimes if the front springs are too soft you can actually loose traction. You might want to look at the setups used by the factory losi guys to get a good starting point for the spring rates.

2) reduce the stiffness of the front sway bar and/or increase the stiffness of the rear sway bar.

3) Increase the rear uptravel and/or reduce the front uptravel. I would recommend at least 1mm of uptravel to help keep the car smooth. Uptravel is the vertical distance the chassis moves from rest to when the tires lift off of the ground. Increasing the rear uptravel will give you more off power steering, while decreasing the front uptravel will give you more on power steering.

4) Raise the rear roll center by and/or lower the front roll center.

5) shorten the front suspensions upper link to get more camber change in the corner and/or lengthen the rear suspension upper link to get less camber change in the corner.

There is more that can be done, but this should be a good starting point. By the way, make these adjustments one at a time when you are testing the results so you can see how much each adjustment affects the handling.

Hope this helps.

cya,

Last edited by mcrisp; 05-28-2002 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:07 AM   #149
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BigDogRacing:

I love those editable setup sheets. Here is a link to an already filled out setup sheet for the 414M

http://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/414m_Ripon1.pdf

Here is a link to a blank one

http://www.tamiya.com/english/produc...414m_seat1.pdf

Very Kool stuff.
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Old 05-28-2002, 10:57 AM   #150
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Martin, thanks for the recommendations. Will try 'em this friday. Gotten quite used to changing shock oil right on the track ;-)

Yet another question! When running dual one ways, do you run your rear ball diff tighter? Right now I'm setting it such that it doesn't slip, so it is very smooth, not tight.

TIA!

~Alvin
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