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Old 07-19-2011, 06:51 PM   #196
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I guess I just see things differently than you guys...

Most look at rc racing as an expensive hobby. I chose to look at it as a cheap way to race.

I think no matter the hobby people will spend there entire "leisure" budget however they see fit. If all of a sudden all rc stuff was half price I think we would all spend the same money, but end up with more stuff.

If I fished I'd be complaining that my boat only has the 200hp outboard and not the 250 because I can't afford it...
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:58 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by nickw View Post
Let me ask this then...

Does anyone here think that it is possible to have a competitive touring car for around $300? Not including batteries and chargers, but a boosted 17.5 TC capable of running close to the faster guys at a club level.

Maybe not winning the race, but always making the A main with a good driver...
Used Race Chassis: ~$100-150
Used Cirtix ESC/motor combo: $75?
Used Servo: $40? You can almost get a new Savox for that.
Used Radio: Free
Tires: $25-30 (I'm thinking Sweep R-series on sale), but those are consumable.

I'm pretty sure I could assemble a $300 setup, possibly even with battery, that a handful of drivers in my area could finish in the top half of the A-Main with, at the club level (usually only 2 mains).

-Mike
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:17 PM   #198
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I think if you look around, you can get there for around the $300-$350 cost.

Look at the Sakura Zero S car, around 125-150 shipped
Hobbywing 60A ESC, 60
Find a used 17.5 or a hobbywing, 30-60
Servos like the EXI 60G run 15 bucks... .09 @ 100oz.
Run a set of Sweeps (or Jaco's) around 40
Add a body, radio, and batteries...

You can get there... The thing is, we all get distracted by the fast cars on the track. What are they running? What's fast? We end up getting into "Dyno Wars" without actually having a dyno. All that does is make it more expensive...

I used to race TC in the expensive manner... I had to give it up, my wife had a baby, and I needed to support them. Now I'm looking at getting back in, and I can't believe that I can actually run for that inexpensive. To me, it's not about running to win the race every week. I mean, yea it's great to win! But all my memories in the past are about the people I raced with, and how much fun it was to race with them. We all helped each other, and the pit talk was just awesome!

That's the ticket, it's the people!

Make it fun and friendly, and people will come. Make it affordable and simple, and they will stay.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:40 PM   #199
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I recently got back into on-road racing (and rc racing in a general sense) about a week ago. What drew me to it was the lack of open rules. There was a sort of a mutual decision to not let things get out of control with regards to running insane setups on a small indoor track. Everybody runs 17.5 in a technically "open" sedan class.

I think the fairness ultimately falls in the compassion of the RC community your racing with. If the community makes a mutual decision to try and avoid a new set of rubber tires every week, a 4.5T motor, a brand new T3 every week, or whatever it is, it make the whole racing exposure brilliant. Then you notice the little things that make a winning car.

I mean hell, I got last place last week. I downright sucked in every single way. The car was bad, my driving was bad, gearing was bad..etc. But I still had a blast because of a few fantastic fellow racers that would literally go and tell me everything I needed to know about the racing we were doing. It sounds stupid, but learning about car setup and personal techniques is what makes the racing experience so profound and amusing.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:55 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by nickw View Post
Let me ask this then...

Does anyone here think that it is possible to have a competitive touring car for around $300? Not including batteries and chargers, but a boosted 17.5 TC capable of running close to the faster guys at a club level.

Maybe not winning the race, but always making the A main with a good driver...
Yes, I did it for about $400 Aud, LRP S10 Blast TC, Turnigy Lipos, Hobby-King X-car motor and ESC, low end transmitter, Sorex tires. I am not far off the pace of guys running chassis that are worth more than my entire setup, and i have only been racing for 6 months. With my current setup in the hands of a good driver its about 1.5 sec a lap off the best drivers in the club with their Schumachers, Xrays and Serpents. In my class there is no difference between me and any other car.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:18 AM   #201
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Thanks



Sorry for this huge post...and much of this may have been covered, but the real question isn't being addressed here. To revive the sport requires a new chassis where we can begin the cycle again (look at the Slash and off road). The question needs to not be how do you "revive" on-road...but rather when on-road starts to come back, how to stop the cycle???
I grew up racing r/c from first off road, did not manage to learn how to jump with out breaking something usually, so when on road came to the UK in the 90's, I have never looked back to off road.

We even went through a phase of converting off road cars with wide bodies to race on road when Tamiya only just started with the ta01 so we could help get some racers from off road to experience on road racing.

I have seen the cell wars from 1700's up to 4200, then onto lipo and brushless and yes things have changed a lot over time, for sure.

As for a new class, I dont think that helps. Too many classes thin down the racing IMO.

neither do I think racing should be cost controlled - but I do believe in newcomers getting the right advice when it comes to them upgrading equipment when they feel that time has come.

Where I race, we try to catch every newcomer in that phase. When they feel they are improving and the laptimes are getting more consistant, our race director can then advise them on good deals the regular racers use.

A lot of other racers use EZ run combos, 30c lipos and other not so top end money products. As for tyres, 40 shore foams are quite hard wearing and can be used straight out the packet, so again, cost is not an issue.

We race on a 10x15m carpet track, so those top money 60c lipos make very very little or no difference to lap times. 17.5 can be geared to be just as competitive as 13.5 boosted, again due to the track size.

The guy who frequently TQs and wins races with a chassis that by no meens the latest and greatest, he just knows how to be consistant and put the car exactly where it needs to be on every corner.

So for us, the track limits the performance to a large extent. The rest is down to driver ability and car setup.

Money can be spent, but it gives little or no reward buying top spec equipment.

But, if you have help at hand and you are made welcome at a club.... it goes a long, long way to making the club work

r/c is a game of patience, you only win when all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

Some people do not have the patience to put a puzzle together, or seek help to do it - they just want to see the end product.

And that is why not everyone that makes the jump into r/c hangs around...


So yes, a key point is track size, as are lower speeds and learning how to be consistant.

Higher speeds and bigger tracks only widen the gap between the newcomer and the more experienced. I think that goes un-noticed by many.

It can be very disheartening to be lapped over and over during a race, couple that up with no help to get faster or crash less = easy to see why you never see some people try a second time.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:56 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Good discussion here.

A thought popped into my head recently.
And I didn't like the answer...

How many of you would start in this hobby if you were not already in it ?

I don't mean start over, or take a break and come back.

Imagine if you had never participated in RC racing.
Looking at the cost, and complexity of Sedan racing especially, could you see yourselves getting into it, as it is today ?
If the price is right yes.

Research is key. But we all know not enough research is done by newcomers.

Many turn up with equipment that does nothing except get them racing, and with no chance of being competitive if they do have reasonably good car control.

Buying good usable equipment is something that a newcomer needs to know sooner rather than later to stand a better chance of keeping at racing.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:23 AM   #203
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Default What got you started in RC Racing ?

What got me to commit to a regular race schedule was a good crowd of cool people willing to help a newb as I was.

Off-Road was fun to play with, but I didn't enjoy the racing so much.

Around 1989 a bunch of 12th scale racers in So-Cal took me under their wing, showed me what to do, and it's been my favourite form of RC ever since.

Simple, low cost, fast, fun, 8 min races

Sedans are cool, I like the way Tamiya does it with the realistic bodies, don't care for the hardcore sedan racing, way too much to deal with, too much like a full time job that doesn't pay well

So, if I were new coming into this hobby, something that looked cool like F1 or TCS racing might get my attention enough to stick around.

We do a lot at our local tracks to help the newcomers, and that makes the most difference to keep them coming back.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:12 PM   #204
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Many turn up with equipment that does nothing except get them racing, and with no chance of being competitive if they do have reasonably good car control.
Maybe its not the gear that is the problem, because it sounds to me what you are saying is that these newbs are expected to make it with the seasoned vets, which if is the case, is pretty fail.

At the club i drive at, we have a novice class, all new drivers are put in that and they stay there till they have the driving skills to not cause problems to the faster guys or until their lap times improve to class standards. Novice is also run what you brung, has no points scoring and no race winners, with plenty of quality assistance from guys with the experience to help you with getting the most out of the car you brung and with becoming more consistent.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:20 PM   #205
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neither do I think racing should be cost controlled - but I do believe in newcomers getting the right advice when it comes to them upgrading equipment when they feel that time has come.
This is a key point, new drivers are not going to get the full potential out of an RTR Chinese oem brand, so why burden them out of the box with the cost of a pro car, but, there will come a time, when the new driver has gotten the full potential out of his cheep RTR and is ready to make the switch, at this point, they need to be given quality advice, not just we all run ABC brand so you should too. Working out where to invest your dollars and what is going to give you the best increase is not an easy thing to do.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:21 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
I guess I just see things differently than you guys...

Most look at rc racing as an expensive hobby. I chose to look at it as a cheap way to race.
Exactly how I feel...If I could afford to race full sized cars, had a garage I could work on them in, and lived in an area where there was full sized racing happening then I would be doing that. Same reason I race in iRacing on occasion as well.

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Maybe its not the gear that is the problem, because it sounds to me what you are saying is that these newbs are expected to make it with the seasoned vets, which if is the case, is pretty fail.
Unfortunately I see this all too often in both RC and other hobbies I enjoy. Many new drivers think that just because they buy the fastest RTR out there and can control it reasonably well in an open parking lot that they can be competitive on the track. Then there is the other crowd who jump in with both feet and buy all the best high end stuff they can find, put it all together, and expect to be competitive right off the bat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDaShrubber View Post
At the club i drive at, we have a novice class, all new drivers are put in that and they stay there till they have the driving skills to not cause problems to the faster guys or until their lap times improve to class standards. Novice is also run what you brung, has no points scoring and no race winners, with plenty of quality assistance from guys with the experience to help you with getting the most out of the car you brung and with becoming more consistent.
We had a novice class...problem is as those drivers graduated into more structured and faster classes there wasn't enough people to run the novice class any more...so any new novices didn't have a class.

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:42 PM   #207
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+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Ah, the good old minis. Look how fun they can be. Too bad it died out here.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:54 PM   #208
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:06 PM   #209
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We had a novice class...problem is as those drivers graduated into more structured and faster classes there wasn't enough people to run the novice class any more...so any new novices didn't have a class.
Thats when you need to have 4 or 5 off the shelf RTR's and have a lottery to draw out who is going to drive them each week against the 1 or 2 novices that you might have at the club at any one time. Making those newbs feel welcome and catered for will go along way to keeping them as club members in the long run.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:36 PM   #210
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Not sure how to revive on road. Here we have had a couple club days but only a few of us show up. I guess we will keep doing it and see if more show up. We still have fun.

Hate to say it but we almost need a short course type car/class. The off road here as exploded due to this. We even tried to get the guys to run their trucks on road. We did get a few but only because they had nothing else to do that day.
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