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Old 03-07-2011, 07:17 AM   #16
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The USVTA rule set is FAR more universally accepted than even the ROAR standard, which I expect will soon be updated to more closely reflect the current USVTA rules. With the exception that ROAR cannot be partial to any manufacturer.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:41 AM   #17
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And that's why VTA as a ROAR program is a dead horse. Do yourself and the hobby a favor by adopting the NATIONALLY ACCEPTED rule set. If you deviate from it you're simply diluting the effort and creating a "bastard child" situation similar to what happened with RCGT which is now the poster child for failed programs that started out with such strength and possibility to really help the growth of the hobby. Now it's just a flavor of the week program that varies on a club by club basis. USGT is now the best effort to get it back on track but the damage is done and only the future will tell whether it recovers to the level of VTA, which is probably the most stable program in all of RC.
Scootr runs at the same outdoor track that I do and we use the 21.5 motor because 25.5 would be dead slow on our 120x72 track. We are quite happy with our setup and have a few guys that travel and run sanctioned events. i personally don't feel it's fair to always tell someone if they are running altered rules they are just ruining VTA. If we were running on a smaller track would run the national rules, but for us our rules work, just saying.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:24 AM   #18
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Scootr runs at the same outdoor track that I do and we use the 21.5 motor because 25.5 would be dead slow on our 120x72 track. We are quite happy with our setup and have a few guys that travel and run sanctioned events. i personally don't feel it's fair to always tell someone if they are running altered rules they are just ruining VTA. If we were running on a smaller track would run the national rules, but for us our rules work, just saying.
I can live with that provided that:

1. Anyone visiting your track understands ahead of time that you are running the 21.5 rules.
2. Your locals understand that they are using a modified ruleset and if they travel anywhere else they should be ready to comply with the National rule set.
3. No one is on the forum whining that the National rule set be changed to suit what you are doing locally.

If you are matching those three things, and I think you are. Then we are good. It is however a touchy subject to see someone telling another club to run ROAR rules instead of the USVTA.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:31 AM   #19
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Our club just recently started VTA indoors. We are basically doing run what you brung, just trying to get more interest in it.

Right now we have some 540 silver cans, a 17.5 turned down, a 27turn motor running, and who knows what else.

One guy even runs a converted Nitro RS4 chassis. Eventually we will all get to a standard setup, but we are looking towards 21.5 vs. the 25.5. Main reason is there are more options to run 21.5's, and the second is that our VTA's should not be slower than the Mini class.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:33 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
I can live with that provided that:

1. Anyone visiting your track understands ahead of time that you are running the 21.5 rules.
2. Your locals understand that they are using a modified ruleset and if they travel anywhere else they should be ready to comply with the National rule set.
3. No one is on the forum whining that the Nationa rule set be changed to suit what you are doing locally.

If you are matching those three things, and I think you are. Then we are good. It is however a touchy subject to see someone telling another club to run ROAR rules instead of the USVTA.
1. The shop we race at has an online forum and the rules are posted there and we have a pretty good word of mouth chain set up. We are very open group and will help anybody out any way we can so they can run with us.

2. Covered, like I said we have a few guys that travel and they have the motors and esc's to be legal.

3. Also covered, we know we are the odd man out as far as the rules go and we accept it. We understand that the rules are pretty much set up for small indoor tracks and that is why we tweaked it for our outdoor setup. Only thing I would even think about suggesting would be an outdoor(large track) spec rules set. Even with that though we wouldn't be USVTA legal(esc, motor) so I have kept my fingers tied on that.
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Last edited by JCarr; 03-07-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:37 AM   #21
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I can remember when the FDR was at the track directors discretion. The point of that being that it should be opened up for larger tracks. That was before the 21.5 lipo rules came in.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #22
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I didn't mean to insult anybody so I hope that's not the case. Snoopy has it right though. It's one thing to adopt a set of rules that's good for YOUR group, it's quite another to advocate using a set of rules set forth by another governing body as a standard. In this case ROAR is just plain wrong. VTA has always accepted that clubs may adopt what works for them WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that they ARE NOT working within the nationally accepted rule set. After all, it's all about promoting the class , even if there are modifications. That doesn't mean somebody should advocate ANY system that deviates from the goals and rules of the nationally organized class. That just breeds dissention and it's a bit offensive to those of us who try to help promote VTA for the great class it is and to support the hard work of those who continue to foster it's growth.
Again, look at RCGT. If the problems had been dealt with early on and hard decisions been made, it's quite possible GT class would be what it was meant to be.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:55 AM   #23
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I will be forwarding your comments to both Customer Service and Novak management; we do not just leave customers hanging with no additional support. Our tech guys do suggest trying certain things to solve the problems, but if those do not work, we have additional steps to take.

Keep in mind, if electronics work fine for a month (or even a couple of hours) the likelihood that the items are defective from the factory is minimal; we operate everything under load as a final operational check, so we know that they work leaving the factory. Here is the info I post advising racers to contact us:

Many times the problem you are experiencing will have an easy fix and you will not need to return your product for service. Unless you include the info below, we may not be able to assist you by email. Please email [email protected] with your question, Our regular CS/Tech Support hours can be located here. Before emailing, take a moment to review the instructions (trouble-shooting guide) originally included with your Novak Item:

Novak Instruction Downloads

Quote:
Please make your initial email as detailed as possible. Include:

~ speed control (brand/model)
~ motor (brand/wind)
~ number/type of cells
~ battery, brand (c rating/capacity
~ rotor (old/new)
~ connectors used
~ servo (brand/model)
~ radio system (receiver/transmitter)
~ vehicle & gearing
~ warranty claim? Include serial numbers
~ lipo cut-off, on/off
~ any external modules (BEC/brand, Glitch Buster)
~ other important info: water damage, corrosive chemical sprays, excess heat, etc
The more information you provide in your first email, the more quickly tech support can offer you assistance; without this information, diagnosing your problem is practically impossible.

We also maintain comprehensive non-warranty programs for our customers. I apologize if our employees did not offer you all of the assistance you needed. If you have additional question, you can PM me with your phone/email information and I will have CS contact you.

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Novaktwo, I understand the installation and running of the components in my TC4. All components were installed by my local hobby shop and had been running well for over a month, so I really dont think it was caused poor installation. The battery was a new 2s lipo 5000mah 50c, servo and reciever were both used in other vehicles before and after the event, so I believe something in the esc or capaciter went bad.

I am not blaming anyone for what happened, I am just a little disappointed in Novaks Customer Service, when my sons and his friends new Novak Ballistic Motors and ESCs failed right out of the box. When the hobby shop owner contacted Novak for help because the the esc's would not go into one touch programming he was told lets try the one touch programming anyway and wouldnt listen to the the Hobby shop owner when he said he had already tried. In my opinion the people at Novak could use some training in listening and customer relations.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
I didn't mean to insult anybody so I hope that's not the case. Snoopy has it right though. It's one thing to adopt a set of rules that's good for YOUR group, it's quite another to advocate using a set of rules set forth by another governing body as a standard. In this case ROAR is just plain wrong. VTA has always accepted that clubs may adopt what works for them WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that they ARE NOT working within the nationally accepted rule set. After all, it's all about promoting the class , even if there are modifications. That doesn't mean somebody should advocate ANY system that deviates from the goals and rules of the nationally organized class. That just breeds dissention and it's a bit offensive to those of us who try to help promote VTA for the great class it is and to support the hard work of those who continue to foster it's growth.
Again, look at RCGT. If the problems had been dealt with early on and hard decisions been made, it's quite possible GT class would be what it was meant to be.
The ROAR rules are the original USVTA rules ... with any brand. ...I see there isn't a class at this years National for VTA, so I can see the thinking that the ROAR version is falling off, The guy asked the original question because,like me, he wanted to use a different speed control. I just pointed out that the option is there if his track wanted to use it.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:33 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
I didn't mean to insult anybody so I hope that's not the case. Snoopy has it right though. It's one thing to adopt a set of rules that's good for YOUR group, it's quite another to advocate using a set of rules set forth by another governing body as a standard. In this case ROAR is just plain wrong. VTA has always accepted that clubs may adopt what works for them WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that they ARE NOT working within the nationally accepted rule set. After all, it's all about promoting the class , even if there are modifications. That doesn't mean somebody should advocate ANY system that deviates from the goals and rules of the nationally organized class. That just breeds dissention and it's a bit offensive to those of us who try to help promote VTA for the great class it is and to support the hard work of those who continue to foster it's growth.
Again, look at RCGT. If the problems had been dealt with early on and hard decisions been made, it's quite possible GT class would be what it was meant to be.
It's all good EVO, just wanted to state our position as a track. We don't usually go around telling people to deviate from the main rules, but in our situation this is what works for us. I as actually thinking of suggesting changing our program to a USVTA/USGT hybrid, but didn't have enough time before we had our track meeting to put that pitch together.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:48 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootr117 View Post
The ROAR rules are the original USVTA rules ... with any brand. ...I see there isn't a class at this years National for VTA, so I can see the thinking that the ROAR version is falling off, The guy asked the original question because,like me, he wanted to use a different speed control. I just pointed out that the option is there if his track wanted to use it.
JCarr, Thanks. We're just some guys talking things out.

Scootr..As I understand, ROAR will likely update their rule book to reflect the CURRENT rules but I question how you thought they used the original rules. I don't remember the 17.5bl nor do I remember any 1 cell batteries allowed. But you're right that they ALSO retained the original specs. Isn't this a perfect display of why it's not healthy to advocate outside rules ?? Here's ROAR making their own set of modifications to a recognized set of rules and for what ?? It surely didn't do them any good and simply serves to confuse people....just as you were.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:25 PM   #27
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This class started before brushless got to be mainstream. The original intent was 4cell 27t. then people griped to add brushless.....the founder got unhappy and sold it off or something to Rob ...I believe the goal since is to get back to that "speed" I don't intend to confuse anyone. There is enough of that on Tech as it is. I do get to travel some and in Ohio there are all different rule sets being used. Most are club choices. That is my point
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:06 PM   #28
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I as actually thinking of suggesting changing our program to a USVTA/USGT hybrid, but didn't have enough time before we had our track meeting to put that pitch together.
Nashville VTA scene which is at Cool Springs raceway and at ThunderRC Nashville, they have a split VTA class. The lower ranking one is more liberal in the rules. They put the kids and the noobs and otherwise sportsman ranked drivers in there. They allow Split window Corvette and Pantera bodies as well as the legal list. There is some wiggle room on the powertrain as well but it had better be slow. The upper class VTA is the faster guys and it is strict VTA rules. Although occasionally they will have a special event and still allow the Vette. Maybe the Pantera too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
JCarr, Thanks. We're just some guys talking things out.

Scootr..As I understand, ROAR will likely update their rule book to reflect the CURRENT rules but I question how you thought they used the original rules. I don't remember the 17.5bl nor do I remember any 1 cell batteries allowed. But you're right that they ALSO retained the original specs. Isn't this a perfect display of why it's not healthy to advocate outside rules ?? Here's ROAR making their own set of modifications to a recognized set of rules and for what ?? It surely didn't do them any good and simply serves to confuse people....just as you were.
I dont want to hang ROAR on this. They are not allowed to discriminate or show preference to any manufacturer. Thats why the tires description shows the dimensions of the HPI Vintage tire but does not name HPI, even though they are the only ones that make that tire. Its also why they only describe can and endbell specs and wind without naming the Novak in particular. The USVTA is not bound by these parameters and is free to call out a particular product as standard. Still the fact that there is a separate ruleset will confuse people. Its just that it is the only way to include VTA into an event like the ROAR nationals, which I think was attempted at one time. (cant swear to that)

1 cell lipos were considered with 13.5 in search for a powertrain that would be comparable with the 4cell 27 turn and still use parts that will work in other classes. I still think its not as good of an option as what the current rules are.

17.5 was the brushless option to be used with a four cell pack. It was never very popular because the 2s 21.5 was also legal and most of the time would dust the 17.5 option.

Quote:
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This class started before brushless got to be mainstream. The original intent was 4cell 27t. then people griped to add brushless.....the founder got unhappy and sold it off or something to Rob ...I believe the goal since is to get back to that "speed" I don't intend to confuse anyone. There is enough of that on Tech as it is. I do get to travel some and in Ohio there are all different rule sets being used. Most are club choices. That is my point
I think Doug had a little more on him than just the weight of the collective whining. He needed to hand it to someone who still had the strength to take it in the right direction. I really enjoyed the 4cell speed. I am glad that Robk got it back close to that and now with 2s lipo so the steering servo is always stout, and the convenience of brushless. Life is good.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:43 PM   #29
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Take5, this thread is needing me. But I'll wait.lol
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:45 PM   #30
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Speaking of the Nashville racing scene.
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