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Old 08-31-2004, 04:06 PM   #136
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Originally posted by Jack Smash
So Griffin, you would rather buy a car from a company that completely redisigns it from the ground up every six months? Oh boo hoo you have to have replacement front and rear arms instead of one arm fits all. How about every company design their cars so they can all use each others arms, and shock towers, and chassis. We are in luck that the manufactures decided on one wheel mounting system. How would you like your manufacture of choice redesigning their car and decide they need to change the wheel offset and now all your tire sets are obsolete?

You might be a mechanical engineer in the field of product design, but what area is this in? Is it an area where performance is the most critical aspect of design, or is it an area where the goal is to use as many off the shelf parts to minimize tooling costs? Sounds to me like you have no idea on how to engineer a racecar.
Please do me a favor and read my post before flaming me. Perhaps you get parts for free, but for those of us who don't, having interchangable parts is a nice feature. It's also a feature that does not take a whole lot of design work to incorporate into a new chassis kit, especially one that has been in the works for so long. However, this idea isn't profitable to manufacturers, and is not suprisingly absent from most kits.

As far as your 'performance is the most critical aspect of design' comment goes, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. If performance is the only thing RC companies are after, why don't kits come standard with all titanium hardware? Why aren't ceramic bearings included? Why aren't tolerances more tightly controlled so that every kit has a drive train that will spin for 2 minutes straight out of the box? Because cost is always the bottom line when you're marketing a consumer product. Conversely, profitability is always the bottom line when you're running a company.

The trick to running a successful company is to charge the consumer JUST enough margin that they don't complain. This can be accomplished by offering superior product at a relative value. This can be accomplished by offering inferior product at an even greater percieved 'value.' Or, this can be achieved by creating brand loyalty where mindless automotons will flame a guy on a message board for critisizing aspects of a product simply because they believe their brand is best and they won a couple club races with it once.

I maintain that the TC4 will be a solid TC. I still commend AE for NOT releasing a new car every week, but after several years, I expect more out of a company than a rehashed and slightly downgraded (in features, not in corporate profitability) version of an already available TC.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:12 PM   #137
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Originally posted by Iniral
I don't know what kind of engineer you are Griffin but it sure sounds like it's not automotive.
And that's based on your in depth knowledge of the automotive industry? Or perhaps your years of training and experience with product design. Or maybe you've read an issue of Import Tuner once and think you know what you're talking about? LOL.

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The TC4 may look like an updated TC3 but I think the design will reflect as a new car on the track.
How is that? It will KEEP winning?
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:18 PM   #138
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Profitability is always the first priority in producing anything commercially. I didnt mention this as top priority as it is a given. Do you really think the small amount of profit that AE or any company will gain by you having to buy seperate front and rear sets of arms offsets the increase in tooling costs? And given that front arms give way far more frequently than rear? You are completly nit-picking here. Next you'll complain about the money hungry R/C companies not selling single arms seperately, or buying diff balls in lots of 12 when you only lost one. What happens if you bend a rim? You have to buy 2 rims, 2 tires, and 2 inserts. Darn those faschist R/C companies trying to keep the average racer down.

Sounds like your just complaining to hear yourself.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:22 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash

Sounds like your just complaining to hear yourself.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:47 PM   #140
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Originally posted by Jack Smash
Do you really think the small amount of profit that AE or any company will gain by you having to buy seperate front and rear sets of arms offsets the increase in tooling costs?
You're right. What was I thinking. They're OBVIOUSLY taking a loss of the arms. I hear their CEO is Robin Hood and they have Sony working their corporate strategy.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:55 PM   #141
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"I just have a problem with companies that ....... put short term balance sheet growth over widespread industry growth."

That is classic.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:58 PM   #142
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Considering associated has contributed more to the growth of this industry than any other manufacture in the world.
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Old 08-31-2004, 05:58 PM   #143
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Just because it looks easy to incorporate into the car doesn't mean it is. There are tons of factors:

1. Were there last minute changes? This chassis is made from a mold die. Once the tools have been cut it's very costly to change.

2. Did the new battery and electronic placements cause the tranny to move fore or aft? Car's have an optimal wheel base that work most of the time, new bulkhead locations could have changed the hunge pin mounting locations.

3. They could have played around with the static and dynamic elements of the suspension. You can't expect to slap the suspension anywhere and call it good.

4. Front and rear stress points. Usually impacts to the front suspension are a lot different than rear suspension impacts. In order to design for durability you have to design the suspension to account for certain impacts.

Which would you rather have? An arm the can be used in all 4 corners but breaks 40% of the time? Or an arm that works only front or back that breaks 10% of the time?


Last edited by Mal; 08-31-2004 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:19 PM   #144
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They had years. That's all I'm saying. Years.

Feel free to unruffle your feathers, brush back the hair on the ridge of your backs, or do whatever else you need to to calm down. I won't offend AE loyalists with product critiques anymore.

It's funny to see how upset and defensive people get over a car they've never even seen in person, let alone tested. Why not blindly defend a product you have no knowledge of simply because the jpeg you saw say's AE and it's the new thing?
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:26 PM   #145
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brilliant, didn't take long for the thread to get bitchy....

I was going ot enter into this but have decided against it.
Sufice to say, Griffen I see your point, but I also agree with Jack Smash's point too.
You do kinda put your own foot in your mouth with your response though. I doubt very much AE would make a loss on them, but would probably make MORE profit if they did use identical ones all round. (and I know with a materials/manufacturing background )

Anyway, I reckon we'll deffiently see this car at the worlds, will it do something the TC3 never has?
And incidently the TC3 will [probably] stop winning soon, as all the AE drivers switch to the tc4 (unless AE have made a complete hash of it , which is very doubtful)
Dunno, but i'm routing for the 415 drivers myself
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:30 PM   #146
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"And that's based on your in depth knowledge of the automotive industry? Or perhaps your years of training and experience with product design."

Actually, yes. What field of engineering are you in Griffin?

"Do you really think the small amount of profit that AE or any company will gain by you having to buy seperate front and rear sets of arms offsets the increase in tooling costs?"

Once again, I'd have to somewhat agree with Jack Smash. My guess is that AE shoots both arms (front and rear) in one mold. So the additional tooling cost would be minimal. However, to design the suspension of the TC4 to use the same arms would compromise the design intent from what I can see from the photos. And if I have to go into more detail than that, you should look into getting a refund for your engineering courses.
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:57 PM   #147
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well here is food for the fodder

Tamiya in there contract has to release a new belt and shaft car

EVERY 6 MONTHS!
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:59 PM   #148
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Tamiya's contract with....?
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:16 PM   #149
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with Tech racing??
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:20 PM   #150
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their own car designers / engineers have a cause that they have to come up with the new designs

think about it how many varitions of the hotshot are there? the frog? blackfoot? bruiser and king hauler are the same truck with different stickers. I have only been racing for 18 years and I have only seen a few cars that they come out with that they can't repeat. it is almost as bad over at kyosho and the se / gold / gold se / and other varations that they had.
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Last edited by nashrcracer; 08-31-2004 at 08:25 PM.
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