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Old 11-14-2005, 02:14 PM   #256
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I almost always run 4 degrees, the 2 degrees in the block and two degrees of spacer.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:22 PM   #257
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Lightbulb Doh silly me.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
I almost always run 4 degrees, the 2 degrees in the block and two degrees of spacer.
I didn't count what's already built into the block. So I take out the 1.5deg spacer and put in 2 of the 1 deg spacers to give me 4 as opposed to the 3.5 I'm running now.

I think that's the right math lol.

Thanks.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:28 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabuchi540
I didn't count what's already built into the block. So I take out the 1.5deg spacer and put in 2 of the 1 deg spacers to give me 4 as opposed to the 3.5 I'm running now.

I think that's the right math lol.

Thanks.
That'll get ya there!
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Old 11-15-2005, 02:50 AM   #259
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Ok after the rebuild I've ended up with this.....

(and I'm not to sure if it sounds right, well one part of it anyway). Ok here goes.....

In an effort to get more rear grip for our asphalt (medium to hight grip track where tire additives are not allowed) I've done the following.....

Made the castor 4 deg and changed front tire size from 1.85 to 1.95 inch which has resulted in a front ride height of approx 4mm (I say approx because I'm using chassis protector which the gauge sometimes catches the edge of).

At the rear the ride height is 4.5mm (again approx for the same reason as above) using the No-1 height adjuster and I'm using 1.81 tires (down from 1.85 after six runs and a re-true).

In the middle I've changed from white side springs to blue and on the shock I've changed from 35 wt and silver spring to 30 wt and the green spring.

Shock length is 72mm

The ride hieght in the middle is approx 3.5 mm

The not quite right (or so it seems) comes into it when I've had to wind in the center spring twice as far from the previous setup to even get that height BUT it has approx 1.5-2mm of up travel from that point compared to the .5-1mm with the previous setup.

Does any of this sound really off the mark?

Opinions as always appreciated.
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Old 11-15-2005, 07:54 AM   #260
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For asphalt I generally run pretty close to that, adding castor defently helps. One thing though, you never want to run your front tires larger than your rear tires, and I never have really run the fronts larger than 1.85, and when i do that i set the rears at 1.90, which wouldnt actually be that bad of a starting diamiter for asphalt. And if you arent rubbing 3-3.5mm is the max i would run for ride height, since having a high ride height, espically in the back (generally you want the back lower than the front for asphalt to get rear grip) can really screw with your rear traction.

As far as shock spring, i probably wouldnt go that soft, maybe blue or a silver center, if you go too soft it will actually take away grip.
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Old 11-15-2005, 11:28 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormperson
At the carpet nats and vegas I ran pretty much the same set up...
Front:
Tires: Parma Purple shimmed out 40 thousands around half compound, 1.68 or so diamiter
I ran a camber shim in vegas, but not at the nats
.022 front springs, and 2 degrees of castor
around 3.5mm ride height

Rear:
Tires: Parma Grey, 1.73-5 diamiter
Shock: 30 weight xray/hudy oil, or about 45 trinity/ae/losi
Red spring
Ofna 10k diff oil in damper tubes
Blue side springs, with a hint of preload
Batteries back and low roll centers
Around 3mm of ride height middle and a touch high in the back, and around 2 degrees of pod droop
*also with parms you have to use around 1/8" of shims of each side of the axle to shim it out to full width*
Parma Speed 8 Body

The car was dialed in vegas and at the nats, very stable and easy to drive and conistant throughout the run. For club racing with not as much bite, it might push a bit, you can try a softer tire set up, pink rears and double pink fronts (grey's also wear alot in low bite)

If you have any q's feel free to ask.
Thanks for the set-up, just getting back into electric racing...what do you man by low roll center...meaning, how do you adjust the roll center in the rear on the REV4?

Thanks
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Old 11-15-2005, 12:56 PM   #262
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I think that the rev. 4 comes with the low roll center cones actually, its basically how high up the links are shimmed.
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Old 11-15-2005, 12:57 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
I almost always run 4 degrees, the 2 degrees in the block and two degrees of spacer.

I wasn't aware how much (if any) caster or camber was built into the old front end - so I called Associated and their answer was no caster or camber was built into the front end blocks and to get 2 degrees of caster you had to use their 2 degree shims (or the old Parma shims or aluminum washers)and for camber you had to shim the blocks with card stock.(something I already do) So, now as things go my 12L4 is hooked up like it's on rails and I am using 10 degree upper arm mounts with one spacer in front and one in back and 2 of camber. My question -(since I never had a 12L4 manuel and it's only avaiable on their cd - not online) What is the caster of this set up and how do I put that amount of caster into my REV 4. I currently use one of the Parma #2 shims and 1 aluminum washer under the front screw - which in total measures .09" 0r a little over 2 degree caster.
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:10 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLM2005
I wasn't aware how much (if any) caster or camber was built into the old front end - so I called Associated and their answer was no caster or camber was built into the front end blocks and to get 2 degrees of caster you had to use their 2 degree shims (or the old Parma shims or aluminum washers)and for camber you had to shim the blocks with card stock.(something I already do) So, now as things go my 12L4 is hooked up like it's on rails and I am using 10 degree upper arm mounts with one spacer in front and one in back and 2 of camber. My question -(since I never had a 12L4 manuel and it's only avaiable on their cd - not online) What is the caster of this set up and how do I put that amount of caster into my REV 4. I currently use one of the Parma #2 shims and 1 aluminum washer under the front screw - which in total measures .09" 0r a little over 2 degree caster.
Every set of old school front arms I've ever had gave 2 degrees caster when bolted to any chassis. It's fairly easy to see when you mount the block, just slide a kingpin in the arm with no wheel on it and you should see the kingpin angles back a bit. Of course it's a bit rare to find two of them that are exactly alike because the molds are so old. Camber on the other hand is supposed to be zero. I've actually had blocks milled down before to make them zero and even on both sides caster and camber wise.
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Old 11-15-2005, 02:12 PM   #265
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That should give me 4 degree +/- caster - guess I should just measure it!
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Old 11-15-2005, 05:17 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
Every set of old school front arms I've ever had gave 2 degrees caster when bolted to any chassis. It's fairly easy to see when you mount the block, just slide a kingpin in the arm with no wheel on it and you should see the kingpin angles back a bit. Of course it's a bit rare to find two of them that are exactly alike because the molds are so old. Camber on the other hand is supposed to be zero. I've actually had blocks milled down before to make them zero and even on both sides caster and camber wise.
Does anyone sell old school front-end pieces that are milled down? I would like to have the option of running smaller front tires and maintain a 3mm to 4mm ride height.
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Old 11-15-2005, 05:49 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashby
Does anyone sell old school front-end pieces that are milled down? I would like to have the option of running smaller front tires and maintain a 3mm to 4mm ride height.
As far as I know, no one sells blocks which are milled....

Bruce at speedmerchant does sell the steering blocks which are milled by 1/8th inch. This allows you to run the tires really small in the front...you will need to add a 1/8th shim to take-up the slop between the milled steering block and the e-clips...works great
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Old 11-15-2005, 05:51 PM   #268
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Crashby,

Milling these things down is a nightmare. I use the new style steering hubs and grind some of the front arm down. With the new crc wheels, may not even have to do that....

Chris
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Old 11-15-2005, 11:34 PM   #269
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Lightbulb Cool thanks :) I've made a few changes.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormperson
For asphalt I generally run pretty close to that, adding castor defently helps. One thing though, you never want to run your front tires larger than your rear tires, and I never have really run the fronts larger than 1.85, and when i do that i set the rears at 1.90, which wouldnt actually be that bad of a starting diamiter for asphalt. And if you arent rubbing 3-3.5mm is the max i would run for ride height, since having a high ride height, espically in the back (generally you want the back lower than the front for asphalt to get rear grip) can really screw with your rear traction.

As far as shock spring, i probably wouldnt go that soft, maybe blue or a silver center, if you go too soft it will actually take away grip.
How about now (take into account the chassis protector thing I mentioned and these are the numbers as best as I can tell with the ride height).....

I put 1.83 tires on the front and 1.90 on the rear and made the shock length + .5mm

Altered the front ride height washers/adjusters as best as they would allow, and put the axel carriers to 2 downs.

I end up with.....

Front ride height 3.5mm
Rear ride height 3.75mm
Under the batteries 3.5mm with 1.5mm of up travel

The only adjustments left open to make is I can alter the shock length of course and alter the rear height in 1mm increments and the front in .8mm increments as that's the smallest washers I've got.

Let me know if you think a little tweak here and there might get it on the money.

Thanks for the help guys.

Last edited by Mabuchi540; 11-16-2005 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:26 PM   #270
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Are you as fired up as I am for Cleveburgh Ian? Should be a good one! I'll probably be calling on your services for Rev4 setup help. So far I love the car. I'm buying the Crown tomorrow!

How bout Newey going to Redbull? Defiantly a suprise. Hopfully Scott speed can impress enough to move up to the Newey penned team...
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