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Old 02-22-2011, 07:34 PM   #196
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In that case, supporting Trinity's non-timing motor for ROAR Spec is not a problem.
OH WOW....Im so glad to know that youve OK'd me to talk about what I want to in here! Thats such a relief!

One of the problems is ROAR in the past has tended to just decide for themselves what is best for all racing.....To me that needs to change. If there are not any racers then where is ROAR? Where are the manufactures? We need input from Racers, Tracks, and clubs...Not just Manufactures.....Getting input from only manufactures and deciding which direction to go without tons of feedback is why we are where we are now. Along with changed classes and rules every year to something completely different. We need some stability and not just a band aid on it again! You going on every thread on here and hobby talk trying to drag people through the mud and put your negative spin on everything does not help racers and especially doesnt help Novak.

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Old 02-22-2011, 07:37 PM   #197
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I agree that a true SPEC or Novice class should be tightly regulated to keep it simple for the guys racing it and keep the rules intact for at least one year.

I also agree that allowing boost gets rid of the motor of the week as well and should be kept for Super stock classes. I also still think the motor rules should be firmed up for all SPEC type classes to help prevent cheating in the classes. I fear someone cheating with a motor 100000000 times more than I do with someone hacking a speedo software program as some think can happen.

Ian I didnt think your car was that slow. Looked like it had good rip. Just scrubbed a little to much. My car was bad till I made that change!

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One of the problem the RC race industry is running into though is that of class dilution. There are so many different classes out there that you end up with less people in each class. While at the big races this is something of an inconvenience...at the club level it becomes an issue due to the much smaller numbers of racers. Every time a new class gets dreamed up we get people wanting to add it to the local race program and it goes good for awhile but eventually dies out. Inevitably it seems to always take one or 2 more people out of the hobby when it dies then it brought in in the first place. We don't really need 2 or 3 different stock classes...we should just pick 1 and stick with that.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:40 PM   #198
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It seems to be getting a little bit snarky in here....sheesh guys.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:43 PM   #199
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One of the problem the RC race industry is running into though is that of class dilution. There are so many different classes out there that you end up with less people in each class. While at the big races this is something of an inconvenience...at the club level it becomes an issue due to the much smaller numbers of racers. Every time a new class gets dreamed up we get people wanting to add it to the local race program and it goes good for awhile but eventually dies out. Inevitably it seems to always take one or 2 more people out of the hobby when it dies then it brought in in the first place. We don't really need 2 or 3 different stock classes...we should just pick 1 and stick with that.
I agree that class dilution is not a good thing. I know at our local track we only have one TC class. Blinky 17.5 and its grown this year. I think that each club track should run what is best for them and their racers weather its a ROAR class or not.

I think there is a place for a Slow beginners/novice class in ROAR. Novice/Sportsman/Production class. Then Super stock/Exper stock/Pro stock for guys that are just not good enough to run Mod and dont want to spend the money to compete or simply cant compete on a fun level. Then Modified for the true Pro guys, guys that have the money and want to run the class.

There should be limits on who can run the novice/sportsman/production class as well to keep people in it that it was designed for. Those are guidelines that would have to be worked out.

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Old 02-22-2011, 07:50 PM   #200
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God I love nitro.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:32 PM   #201
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God I love nitro.
I like the smell of the Nitro exhaust. I like the sound of it. Like the sound of a whole field of it, but I dont like to tune motors and then get them started. Fuel is messy. I mean if we are anywhere near wanting new blood in RC, I would direct them away from nitro.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:50 PM   #202
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I like the smell of the Nitro exhaust. I like the sound of it. Like the sound of a whole field of it, but I dont like to tune motors and then get them started. Fuel is messy. I mean if we are anywhere near wanting new blood in RC, I would direct them away from nitro.
Not to mention screwing up tuning and having to buy a 400 dollar engine compared to a 70-80 dollar motor.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:56 PM   #203
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I like the smell of the Nitro exhaust. I like the sound of it. Like the sound of a whole field of it, but I dont like to tune motors and then get them started. Fuel is messy. I mean if we are anywhere near wanting new blood in RC, I would direct them away from nitro.
A few years ago I would have agreed with you completely but now? I don't know.

Look at a few facts:

Nitro rules have been basically the same since they were first written down. A car, engine, etc. from 1990 may not be all that competitive anymore, but at least it is still LEGAL. Electric, the car you ran at last years nats might not be legal next year.

Nitro classes are basic. 1/8th, TC and masters. You don't need five different motors, two different esc's and 12 different brands of tires to race one class at three different tracks.

Nitro, no one seems to care that they have to race against Swauger and Burch with no hope to beat them, they go out there and race anyway. Electric they get pissed if some guy with an Epic sticker on his car runs stock.

Nitro, if some guy passes you on the straight, you call Uriah Murnan and order a motor. Electric you scream cheater and demand a rule change.

So in conclusion, my opinion is that ROAR has been more of a problem for electric racing than a solution. IMO, they need to stop screwing around. Come up with a set of rules to compete under for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and LEAVE THEM ALONE, not a thousand classes so each one can have one entry and everyone goes home a winner. Let the local clubs have their own rules for their own racers. With this system, the nitro nats can still draw 100 entries. When is the last time a carpet nats did that?

If the host track wants a "Stock" class for their local bashers to run in that week, they can set the rules for it.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:24 PM   #204
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Back on topic, I like the idea of locked timing motors in "stock class". That's how it was and should be.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:36 PM   #205
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True i like it too but if u compared a 17.5 motor currently avaiable what kind of rpm do they generaly turn loaded when set to C timing mark? And how many rpms will these "0" motors turn? About?
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:50 PM   #206
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Back on topic, I like the idea of locked timing motors in "stock class". That's how it was and should be.
I agree.....

Not to muddy the waters in here anymore....but I dont know if everyone has seen what Speed Passion is doing to work towards a possible solution....and they will be cheap price wise. Maybe we can bring back hand out motors for large races.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/8669287-post6567.html
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:54 PM   #207
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I get the point with Nitro rules etc (I have nitro gear and love it), but I think spec racing in electric has merit, if only because it's the only area in RC when you can pull it off. It also has an ability to tailor speed and power levels, which then has the ability to reduce cost and equipment wear.

As to how many classes, unfortunately I do think the downside of an ability to create different class power levels, is you end up needing at least three (four if you want true novice), you want something entry friendly with some speed, then speed without destruction, then open for people who want and can afford it. (and much of that will depend on size of your track).

I still think dynamic timing would have found a level soonish if left alone, but again to many people just could not get their heads around it (and they just don't want to have to 'tune' a electric system), which is a shame.

Still zero with gearing makes me wonder if it's going to be more expensive long term, I'm already getting this vibe that you 'need' fresh packs (and the geared up amp draw is harder on them?), and go the wrong way on a pinion and your done for the day.

I'll be at the local state titles this year here, maybe racing in 17.5 zero, but I mainly just want to see if anyone blows motors, it seemed a big deal last year when two people blew motors with dynamic.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:58 PM   #208
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Oh and yes, I still think if we want to stick with the no timing path, the motors 'need' to be as equal as possible, but will that 'need' control motors?, or can you actually convince all makers to make something simular enough spec to not be a huge issue?.

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I agree.....

Not to muddy the waters in here anymore....but I dont know if everyone has seen what Speed Passion is doing to work towards a possible solution....and they will be cheap price wise. Maybe we can bring back hand out motors for large races.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/8669287-post6567.html
Interesting, but am I the only one who think those look butt ugly?, though does it matter if they sell cheap?, my second thought is how much hotter/slower is a steel can with no vents going to run?.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:06 PM   #209
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I get the point with Nitro rules etc (I have nitro gear and love it), but I think spec racing in electric has merit, if only because it's the only area in RC when you can pull it off.
Oh I agree with that. Even in Nitro you see some clubs running spec motors for a slower and cheaper class. What you don't see is ROAR making a class for it and running it at a NATS.

To me, a Nats is for determining who the best of the best are. Not for seeing who can win a spec class that the best teams and drivers aren't even allowed to compete in.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:22 PM   #210
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Is physical timing on the motors really that big a deal? I get trying to tamper proof the winds, but what's the problem with physical timing? If it's adjustable, you don't have to worry if someone's motor has more timing than yours, or whatever.
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