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Old 02-22-2011, 08:38 AM   #151
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As circular as these kinds of issues are in this hobby, give it a year, everyone will be screaming to bring back more boosted classes because it's too expensive to burn up at least one motor a race trying to stay geared as high as possible.

I know when I got back into electric after a long break [around 3 years ago, I think], that was a complaint I had, brushless motors have a much narrower gearing window to find straight away speed and balance acceleration than 27t motors. Once timing started coming into play on the ESCs, finding that speed and acceleration was a matter of gearing conservative to start and playing with software. Once you were on pace, the motor temps were/are at a much more comfortable level.

I still don't see where the real argument is for the proponents of zero timing classes. Is it: a) closer racing, b) cheaper equipment, c) more reasonable speed [in racing!, still cracks me up], or d) more accessible to newbies?

My responses: a) maybe, it certainly puts all the cars close enough for one hack to turn into a NASCAR style "big one".
b) Don't see it. My Tekin RS Pro was $186, nearly 3 years ago, and I haven't had a burnt motor, or a lack of speed. Lack of skill, maybe, but I haven't lacked speed, and my long term costs are quite low.
c) Don't see it. Again, we're racing, the goal is to go fast, that's not changing. You can slow down the equipment, and people are still going to do whatever it takes to find or buy any legal advantage.

And Finally

d) Isn't that the job of the local racers? I've gone out of my way to introduce myself and help a newer racer get on pace so they become a regularly attending racer. Changing the rules isn't going to replace that one-on-one camaraderie most of us appreciate at our local races.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:42 AM   #152
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As circular as these kinds of issues are in this hobby, give it a year, everyone will be screaming to bring back more boosted classes because it's too expensive to burn up at least one motor a race trying to stay geared as high as possible.
A year? Many of us are already.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:58 AM   #153
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I talked about this with some people at dinner one night at the Birds. I thint it might actually be the best option but until someone makes one and puts it to the test its just good in theory.

IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
Interesting thought... the GM speed controller can do this currently (limit rpm) but I'm not sure I follow as to how it's going to limit speeds ?


30,000 rpm on a 20 pinion will not be the same speed as 30,000 rpm on a 30 pinion for example..
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:02 AM   #154
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A year? Many of us are already.
You got me there.

I guess I see these arguments mostly during carpet season. I'd wager that for those running on decent sized outdoor asphalt tracks, the sentiment will swing toward boosted classes.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:38 AM   #155
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You got me there.

I guess I see these arguments mostly during carpet season. I'd wager that for those running on decent sized outdoor asphalt tracks, the sentiment will swing toward boosted classes.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:44 AM   #156
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You got me there.

I guess I see these arguments mostly during carpet season. I'd wager that for those running on decent sized outdoor asphalt tracks, the sentiment will swing toward boosted classes.
A very interesting and ACCURATE assesment! < 80' straight would probably vote no boost and > 80' straight would probably vote boosted. How would this be addressed?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:21 AM   #157
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A very interesting and ACCURATE assesment! < 80' straight would probably vote no boost and > 80' straight would probably vote boosted. How would this be addressed?
I address it with lighter gearing and less boost for carpet racing
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #158
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As circular as these kinds of issues are in this hobby, give it a year, everyone will be screaming to bring back more boosted classes because it's too expensive to burn up at least one motor a race trying to stay geared as high as possible.
How many 17.5 or 21.5 motors have you burnt up in no boost classes?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:18 PM   #159
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A very interesting and ACCURATE assesment! < 80' straight would probably vote no boost and > 80' straight would probably vote boosted. How would this be addressed?
Agreed this is one of the core issues....this was talked about the last time this topic came up. There really needs to be two sets of rules....and it will have to be worked out based off of the tracks size. I would say under 100ft then its 17.5 non boosted...over 100ft its 17.5 boosted. Because 1 set of rules isnt going to please everyone or work for EVERY track.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:34 PM   #160
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Agreed this is one of the core issues....this was talked about the last time this topic came up. There really needs to be two sets of rules....and it will have to be worked out based off of the tracks size. I would say under 100ft then its 17.5 non boosted...over 100ft its 17.5 boosted. Because 1 set of rules isnt going to please everyone or work for EVERY track.
I have suggested this to ROAR for the upcoming year but its not my call. Seems to be the most logical solution at this point for the Super stock class.

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Old 02-22-2011, 02:34 PM   #161
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How many 17.5 or 21.5 motors have you burnt up in no boost classes?
Before boosted became the norm, I had 2 17.5's that were geared one tooth too high [on separate occasions] that were never the same after running over 200 degrees F.

The only thing I have a 21.5 in is a Legends car

Since boosted came along and I've run boosted solely, I've got 2 motors that are over 2 years old that are just now starting to show signs of fading and that I've scheduled for replacement. But, they still run cool, with good straightaway speed, just lacking that last little punch I want off the corner. I don't HAVE to replace these motors, I WANT to replace these motors.

I can't say the same for those 2 motors I put over 200 degrees those few years ago, they never would run under 190 after that, even when geared too slow, or with fresh bearings. Never bothered to try and replace the rotors, the windings were discolored, so I dumped them.

The only thing I'll say that might make things different now, is the TC minimum weight is a lot lower than it was when I burnt up those 2 motors, but I'm not going to run non-boosted and possibly up my total to 3 when I'm perfectly comfortable with the running condition of my equipment in the boosted classes.

Then again, I still prefer to replace/upgrade equipment when I WANT to, not because I HAVE to.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:15 PM   #162
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So you never actually melted down any motors. I have melted down, by which I mean smoke comes out and the epoxy in the motor is all over the place, multiple motors trying to get everything right for boosted classes. I have also watched others do this.

You probably can get your slightly overheated motors to work like new again with new rotors.

I also have been at several series races with spec 17.5 classes, where there were 20+ 17.5 spec cars, and i have yet to see a motor go up. I honestly think this is not that big a problem.

I do remember guys smoking motors in the early days of BL racing, but a lot of that seemed to be due to LRP TC spec Escs that people didn't realize had timing advance. I never melted a motor with a GTB.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:20 PM   #163
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I never melted a motor with a GTB.
that is because the gtb speedo actually had a temp sensor that monitored the motor temp and the lrp does not (blue wire)
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:23 PM   #164
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So you never actually melted down any motors. I have melted down, by which I mean smoke comes out and the epoxy in the motor is all over the place, multiple motors trying to get everything right for boosted classes. I have also watched others do this.

You probably can get your slightly overheated motors to work like new again with new rotors.

I also have been at several series races with spec 17.5 classes, where there were 20+ 17.5 spec cars, and i have yet to see a motor go up. I honestly think this is not that big a problem.

I do remember guys smoking motors in the early days of BL racing, but a lot of that seemed to be due to LRP TC spec Escs that people didn't realize had timing advance. I never melted a motor with a GTB.
I smoked one motor this year in 17.5 Spec at our local track. Missed the gear by one tooth. Think it was more of a crappy motor than anything though (small name brand I was trying out).

I have not seen very many motors melt down in the past few years either and think it was early on in BL when guys didnt know how to gear them that there were issues. Mike Haynes had one go at the birds this year in Super stock TC but it was a fluke where he was boosting it VERY high he said.

I think its a minor thing now that some guys are using as excuses and blowing it out of proportion because they are misinformed for the most part.

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Old 02-22-2011, 03:23 PM   #165
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Hi,

I read the brochure, seems objective of this spec motor is to simplify (e.g. no laptops, programming) and to grow the hobby. To me it seems ideal for a Novice class.

Boosted escs made my eyes roll and confused (despite playing with rc cars for 33 years). Definitely not a way to attract new racers.

My take is this motor is to attract new racers (i.e. beginners) or retain racers who want to race at a slower speed.

Harcore racers can still race in existing classes with mod or boost.

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