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Old 02-21-2011, 03:40 PM   #136
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What type of tires are you using that are expensive? We use Jaco blues at our track and are sold for 30.00 and the track makes good money at that and they last the racers forever on our track. The cost of tires has never been cheaper than they are now IMO.

EA
Yea no kiddin! Remember when we used to buy wheels, inserts and tires separately for like 45-50 bucks and get 1-3 fast runs from them? Then 2-4 runs for heats for fast practice, maybe a couple more for early practice, then GONE.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:15 PM   #137
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Hi EA,

I run on indoor asphalt. 13.5T boosted.

Sorex 36 + inserts + rims = $35USD.
Traction compound = $15USD.

Tires might last 2 race days. I have tried Solaris handouts, good grip but wears faster than Sorex.

I race other classes, but find TC to be most expensive on tires.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:17 PM   #138
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[QUOTE=JoeD.;8687644]
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Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
Also, by letting new guys run in the faster class, the ones who have a lot of work to do still sometimes end up ruining the race of others.

Isnt this why we have qualifiers that set up the mains? Even novice drivers can make a good qualifier and gets put into the B main because he drove the right to be there, its not just a hat draw!! Why do you assume the new guy is ruining it for the others? Proper race etiquate will be acquired as he races with the vets, as long as they instruct him properly. Be nice to the new guy. He is watching the race veterans carefully and wants to be like them, and they should be congratulated when they beat you fair and square.
Spec motors will take away any advantage the vet has with experience in finding good motors etc. and likely close the gap in time for the rookie with driving talent to catch up.
That would be fine but, it sounds like it is the guys in the lower mains griping about the speeds that could result in the rest of us slowing done to the point of boredom. The real issue is a lot of people thinks they should make the A and if not there is a reason other than personal ability why!!

As for Spec motors....most people will tell you the most expensive racing there is, is spec.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:17 PM   #139
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What type of tires are you using that are expensive? We use Jaco blues at our track and are sold for 30.00 and the track makes good money at that and they last the racers forever on our track. The cost of tires has never been cheaper than they are now IMO.

EA
That's a HUGE +1 on that end. Rubber tires have certainly brought down the costs when compared to foams. And if you're burning through rubber tires, there's something wrong.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:28 PM   #140
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Hi EA,

I run on indoor asphalt. 13.5T boosted.

Sorex 36 + inserts + rims = $35USD.
Traction compound = $15USD.

Tires might last 2 race days. I have tried Solaris handouts, good grip but wears faster than Sorex.

I race other classes, but find TC to be most expensive on tires.
Wow....Sounds to me that your track needs to go to a spec tire that last longer to be honest. It would help cut down on cost and probably pick up attendance too. The asphalt must be abrasive. Is the traction good there? If not spraying some sort of traction on the track could help a ton with tire wear.

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Old 02-21-2011, 04:31 PM   #141
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Maybe Spec racing is not just about cost, but to reduce speeds.

I think in Japan a lot of TC racers got turned off by insane speeds of boosted escs and now popular is 48T brushed motors.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mtabe19#p/a/u/2/LT89AOC2KkQ

Cheaper and closer racing. Speeds that Novice drivers can control. I guess similar to VTA.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:38 PM   #142
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Hi EA,

We tried Solaris Spec tires. More expensive as it did not last as long as Sorex.

Track is already non-abrasive and very good traction. But high speed, so nothing really can be done I guess. Here's the track.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I watch the ETS and pro races, seems their handout tires last 1 or 2 good runs as well despite the smooth driving of professionals.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #143
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1) Spec rules are not about slowing down the fast guys. They are about making an easier entry point for the slow guys.

2) If the fast guys are so offended by spec rules, perhaps they should go and run mod instead (somehow I think that they won't)

3) All forms of racing are expensive if you are looking for the last 1/10th that your driving skills can't provide. But when you aren't looking for the last 10th - spec is cheaper. It's easier on the car, easier on the tyres, easier for you not to crash, and the electrics can be a little cheaper too.

RC was onto a great thing a couple of years ago with brushless motors and LiPo. Touring is in danger of being hoist by its own petard if it doesn't sort out the motor nonsense we have right now. There may be resistance to ROAR's moves towards more restricted motor and ESC specifications, but in a season, the racers will be thankful for it. Where ROAR leads, (most of) the world follows.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:37 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
1) Spec rules are not about slowing down the fast guys. They are about making an easier entry point for the slow guys.

2) If the fast guys are so offended by spec rules, perhaps they should go and run mod instead (somehow I think that they won't)

3) All forms of racing are expensive if you are looking for the last 1/10th that your driving skills can't provide. But when you aren't looking for the last 10th - spec is cheaper. It's easier on the car, easier on the tyres, easier for you not to crash, and the electrics can be a little cheaper too.

RC was onto a great thing a couple of years ago with brushless motors and LiPo. Touring is in danger of being hoist by its own petard if it doesn't sort out the motor nonsense we have right now. There may be resistance to ROAR's moves towards more restricted motor and ESC specifications, but in a season, the racers will be thankful for it. Where ROAR leads, (most of) the world follows.
Best post in here todate!!!

For my local racing and regional series I help run the spec 17.5 class is what the majority of people want to race and are racing. We are about to have our final race of the series this weekend and Iím sure the spec class will be the largest class as it has been at every race from the start.....its grown and the 17.5 open class has shrunk. Spec is what it seems the majority of people want in TC in my region anyway.

Also I donít know why people keep bringing it up that people want to race class that they can win at? From what I have seen people just want to race in a class that they can feel comfortable RACING in....period. This fallacy of people wanting to spec a class so they can win is just fodder for sensationalism....Im sure that there are people out there that think this way but im willing to say that 98% of the peple just want to be comfortable and enjoy their time racing......if this wasnt the case we would all be running mod or there would only be 1 class.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:39 PM   #145
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Also I donít know why people keep bringing it up that people want to race class that they can win at? From what I have seen people just want to race in a class that they can feel comfortable RACING in....period. This fallacy of people wanting to spec a class so they can win is just fodder for sensationalism....Im sure that there are people out there that think this way but im willing to say that 98% of the peple just want to be comfortable and enjoy their time racing......if this wasnt the case we would all be running mod or there would only be 1 class.
bringing the TRUE SCIENCE to the thread!!!!
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:56 PM   #146
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At my local track we switched to 17.5 no boost. There is more of a horsepower issue than we ever had with boost. I think it comes down to picking the right rotor and the money to have new packs. With boost you can run a old motor and old packs and add timing as necessary. Just my opinion!
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:04 AM   #147
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At my local track we switched to 17.5 no boost. There is more of a horsepower issue than we ever had with boost. I think it comes down to picking the right rotor and the money to have new packs. With boost you can run a old motor and old packs and add timing as necessary. Just my opinion!
+1

a combination of 0 timing and high wind is a perfect equation for creating new markets for:

1) high and low sensitivity sensor boards for that 'legal' timing adjustment
2) select rotors for that last 0.001% magnet strength
3) zapped lipo cells for that extra voltage

it is odd to me that people see ESC programming as bad. if you remember 15 years ago with the 1700 and 2000 nicads, battery voltage was critical for stock motors while capacity was most important to modified. lipo capacity is abundant, so it seems to me that the ramped timing and higher wind allows the racer to use the motors and batteries that he has more effectively.

the bottom line will be more motor and battery sales to be competitive in a 0spec class.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:15 AM   #148
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+1

a combination of 0 timing and high wind is a perfect equation for creating new markets for:

1) high and low sensitivity sensor boards for that 'legal' timing adjustment
2) select rotors for that last 0.001% magnet strength
3) zapped lipo cells for that extra voltage

it is odd to me that people see ESC programming as bad. if you remember 15 years ago with the 1700 and 2000 nicads, battery voltage was critical for stock motors while capacity was most important to modified. lipo capacity is abundant, so it seems to me that the ramped timing and higher wind allows the racer to use the motors and batteries that he has more effectively.

the bottom line will be more motor and battery sales to be competitive in a 0spec class.
+1

if the question is boost or no boost, then I vote boost. with boost people only have to worry about speedo settings. with no boost it is back to motors and batteries and the motor/battery of the week. boost equalized the equipment factor. yes you still had to learn technology, but knowledge is cheaper to come by then the motor/battery of the week. as a matter of fact, for tekin, it is all free. free software and free forum. all the knowledge and support to tune the speedo is on the forum.

but if we are voting to spec the motor or not to spec, then I vote spec the motor. if you are running a spec class, then the motor should be spec'd. the batteries should be spec'd as well. and the speedos should be spec'd
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:18 AM   #149
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+1

as a matter of fact, for tekin, it is all free. free software and free forum. all the knowledge and support to tune the speedo is on the forum.
And now you see the problem. It was being dominated by one manufacturer so now a main competitor is trying to re-do the rules so that they become the ONE manufacturer.

Gotta love politics.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:26 AM   #150
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yeah, makes a lot of sense. lol

we want competition, but when no one else is smart enough to build a better mouse trap, let's just limit the competition. i don't recall recall this being how it was solved in vegas when the BD opened pandora's box
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