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Old 02-16-2011, 11:06 PM   #1
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Default Brushless Setup?

So, as I'm VERY new to on-road racing, and COMPLETELY new to brushless motors, etc... I'm considering purchasing a brushless motor/esc setup.

Currently I'm running a brushed 27T setup. I just found out by the club director at the club I'll be racing in this Friday, that everyone in the "stock" class will be running 17.5T brushless. So, I guess I won't be very competitive...

Maybe you guys can help... I'm running a HB Cyclone TC. I know NOTHING about brushless/LiPo's. I've searched my LHS, and they've got several Motor/ESC combo's by Castle creations. I know Castle is a good brand, but not sure what KV rating I should be aiming for. Also, for the time being, I'd like to stick to a 5000mAh NiMh battery, as that's what I've got, and keeps my costs low.

So, I'll be running 1/10th TC on carpet. Not looking to be the winner every week, just to go out and have some fun. I've noticed the sidewinder esc/motor combo's around $120 which is a great price. Any advice???
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:28 AM   #2
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I would go for a Hobbywing Justock ESC/17.5 combo.
Simple.
Cheap.
Probably fast enough to not be the problem if you are not keeping up on track. Meaning, if the speed difference between this setup and whatever the "best" setup is (that will cost 2-3 times as much) is enough that you are not competitive, then you are a very good driver racing with other very good drivers.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:32 AM   #3
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ps I don't recall ever seeing a CC system with motors rated by turns (17.5), so racing in a 17.5 class with a CC ESC is fine (the ESC's are generally good), however the motors don't meet the rules
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:05 AM   #4
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Another good combo is the Tekin RS and Fantom 17.5.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:16 AM   #5
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If your running stock get a Tekin RS ESC and a Epic Duo 3 or LRP X-12 17.5. these seem to be the motors most people run. The NOvak Ballistic is also a very good motor as well.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:28 AM   #6
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As you are new to the on-road thing. My best advice would be to sit back relax and see what you can do with the brushed motor for a few club races. Focus on one thing at a time starting with the driving and the setup. Spend your money on practice time. Once you feel the need for a little more speed, shift your focus to the power train.

This should give you some time to take a look around and see what others are running. Perhaps you can find someone who is upgrading or cleaning the closet and will offer you a good deal.

If you HAVE to get one now, check and see if the class you are running allows a timing advance ESC. If not the Novak Havoc sport 17.5 is a decent sensored ESC/motor combo. You can get it directly from Novak for $100. It is a remanufactured set, but comes with a factory warranty. Heck of a deal IMHO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadic 78 View Post
So, as I'm VERY new to on-road racing, and COMPLETELY new to brushless motors, etc... I'm considering purchasing a brushless motor/esc setup.

Currently I'm running a brushed 27T setup. I just found out by the club director at the club I'll be racing in this Friday, that everyone in the "stock" class will be running 17.5T brushless. So, I guess I won't be very competitive...

Maybe you guys can help... I'm running a HB Cyclone TC. I know NOTHING about brushless/LiPo's. I've searched my LHS, and they've got several Motor/ESC combo's by Castle creations. I know Castle is a good brand, but not sure what KV rating I should be aiming for. Also, for the time being, I'd like to stick to a 5000mAh NiMh battery, as that's what I've got, and keeps my costs low.

So, I'll be running 1/10th TC on carpet. Not looking to be the winner every week, just to go out and have some fun. I've noticed the sidewinder esc/motor combo's around $120 which is a great price. Any advice???
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gacjr0 View Post
ps I don't recall ever seeing a CC system with motors rated by turns (17.5), so racing in a 17.5 class with a CC ESC is fine (the ESC's are generally good), however the motors don't meet the rules
CC motors are delta wind stators and are always an even number of turns. Wye winds always have the half wind (.5) extra. I Don't believe I have seen any ROAR approved delta winds in the list and nobody I know races with one for onroad.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gacjr0 View Post
I would go for a Hobbywing Justock ESC/17.5 combo.
Simple.
Cheap.
Probably fast enough to not be the problem if you are not keeping up on track. Meaning, if the speed difference between this setup and whatever the "best" setup is (that will cost 2-3 times as much) is enough that you are not competitive, then you are a very good driver racing with other very good drivers.
I've been checking the Hobbywing stuff, as it's inexpensive, and seems fully capable, with good reviews.

I still can't determine if a BL motor is 17.5T or not... Rarely are they rated this way, so it makes it difficult to search the right product. Even the hobbywing BL motors are only listed with a KV rating, and not by Turns.

To keep legal, I need to run 17.5T, so do I have to shop around for a BL motor that's rated at 17.5T, or is there another way to determine Turns in a BL motor?

Thanks for the help guys. Starting to make some sense of this stuff...
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:23 AM   #9
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Man I know the hobby wing stuff is inexpensive but you get what you pay for. Tekin is great stuff and it allows you to run really any class you want. LRP, Novak, and Speed Passion are all great setups and are run buy the worlds best. If you want to be competative your got to go with something that is quality and thats that. The Novak Setup 240Z suggested is a good setup for an entry level guy. it is super smooth and with Novaks reliability and reputation to back it up you can't go wrong.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:21 AM   #10
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KV rating is not 100% reliable. Most companies have their own KV rating, so there is no real base line from one motor to another. You're better off buying a motor that says 17.5 than trying to figure what KV rating equal to 17.5.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:36 AM   #11
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Yea, a Novak set up for $100 is a great starting point. Great customer service, and reliable. If you can afford Tekin by all means go that way. As for Hobbywing....
There great, you get so much more than you pay for with them. I have yet to have a single issue with any of there products. There EZrun stuff is as smooth as any sensored set ups Ive owned. Actually you can pick up a EZrun 60A 17.5t combo for cheap. Hobbypartz has them in stock w/ free shipping outta Cali.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-sens...-rc-motor.html
$34.70
http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-60a-...-1-10-car.html
$42.70
Ive ran the 60A 5.5t and 60A 8.5t combos and they ran cool, fast and smooth. There reliability and quality cannot be matched for there price.
Plus you can pick up a programming card for a few bucks to make quick adjustments at the track or out and about. Hobbywing also has PC supported programing box now so your able to upgrade software and fine tune your system at home.
But for under $80 you wont be disapointed.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadic 78 View Post
I've been checking the Hobbywing stuff, as it's inexpensive, and seems fully capable, with good reviews.

I still can't determine if a BL motor is 17.5T or not... Rarely are they rated this way, so it makes it difficult to search the right product. Even the hobbywing BL motors are only listed with a KV rating, and not by Turns.

To keep legal, I need to run 17.5T, so do I have to shop around for a BL motor that's rated at 17.5T, or is there another way to determine Turns in a BL motor?
A similar wind count of a delta and wye wind do not come out as the same in terms of revolutions per volt. Efficiency and torque curve is also different between the two winding types. Typically the delta wind motors are (almost) always stated in term of KV, not by turns as you pointed out. Just guessing here, but it seems the marketing folks were trying to make it less confusing by listing the motor ratings in terms of KV only. However, in the end people seem to be more confused.

The rule of thumb for spec racing is to only use a motor that is plainly labeled with the number of turns in the winding. If you need to know the KV rating of the motor, look at the website of the manufacturer. It is a good starting point to calculate top speed for a given gearing.

I have read many good things about sensorless BL motors with low wind counts. I have also heard that with the higher wind counts the cogging effect at low speeds is more noticeable. I can't speak with experience as all my motors are sensored. It just seemed to me that sensored is what you use if you want to avoid having to buy twice if it did not work out.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxxrocket View Post
KV rating is not 100% reliable. Most companies have their own KV rating, so there is no real base line from one motor to another. You're better off buying a motor that says 17.5 than trying to figure what KV rating equal to 17.5.

OK, so by the sounds of things, when shopping around (and in order to keep legal for stock TC racing) I need a motor that says 17.5T on the can, and is advertised as a 17.5T motor. Correct?
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadic 78 View Post
OK, so by the sounds of things, when shopping around (and in order to keep legal for stock TC racing) I need a motor that says 17.5T on the can, and is advertised as a 17.5T motor. Correct?
Yes. Motors specifically labeled 17.5 will be the only legal motors for a 17.5 class.
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadic 78 View Post
OK, so by the sounds of things, when shopping around (and in order to keep legal for stock TC racing) I need a motor that says 17.5T on the can, and is advertised as a 17.5T motor. Correct?
The answer is right in the middle of my post "The rule of thumb for spec racing is to only use a motor that is plainly labeled with the number of turns in the winding."

Check with your race director as they have the final say if you are not sure.
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