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Old 09-15-2004, 01:44 PM   #121
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Yes our setting curves are very similar. I think the major difference is the current limiter setting.
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:53 PM   #122
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Quote:
Originally posted by esmie
Hi! V12,

Please check the following website. (All the language is written
by Japanese, but still you can take a look at the product).
Click product section!

http://www.cna.ne.jp/~straight/

The big difference between normal charger and Record Breaker is;
The record breaker has three divided charge operation system thourgh whole charging process.

For example,

from 1mAh to 1200mAh (Charged at 4.5A)
from 1200 mAh to 3500 mAh (Charged 8A)
from 3500 mAh to 4700 mAh (charge 3.5A)
*delta peak 24 mV

So most of charger is a linear charger,which means it cannot
change the setting while charging battery.
On the other hand, record breaker can change the setting.

When I charge the battery by using linear charger, the battery
become really hot! which might be damaged a lot.
But if I charge battery to use the above example set up by record breaker, battery does not become hotter than the one charged by linear charger, even I charge 8A in the mid -section.
So, I think it extend the battery life.

And what is more, the record breaker can be upgraded by changing inside ROM, which most charger cannot.
So far, they have ver.1.0, ver.1.2, and ver.1.5
Latest one is ver. 1.5.

Here is a small caution. Whenever you use record breaker,
battery should be fully discharged. If you don't have discharger, the best way is to connect resister to each cell, and then stay away til the next race. (Before charging, remove resiter at all, and then, start charging!)
(There are a bunch of 0.9V discharger in the market. So you can use these individual discharger)
but I recommend to use hook up resister indiviually to each cells
to reduce the voltage to the Zero(0).)

If you start using both individual discharger and record breaker,
you will notice that the battery capacity will be increasing.

Whenever I charge my non-match battery, the battery always reach 4500 to 4700 mAh. Can you believe it???
So I like it!
Thanks for your explanation. Sounds interesting.

Iīm using the Protrak charger and this seems to be similar in some areas. With the newer versions there is a 3 phase charging possible also but mine are older versions (10.11 and 10.33). But from what I have heard the linear charge is more punchy than the 3 Phase. At least with the Protrak. Iīm using a 6A charge usually with all my batteries and a 0.04 - 0.06 delta peak voltage depending on temperature.
I always have my batteries discharged before (20A with the Protrak) and an additional equalizing on the Robitronic equalizing boards. Using this I charge about 4200 mAh. Without discharging/equalizing there is about 3700-3800 mAh charge.
But I think you canīt compare any mAh charge numbers with different chargers. I only race 27T and 17T motors so punch is the only important to me. Capacity isnīt very much interesting as we have 5 or 6 minutes heats and usually about 800-1000mAh are left after a run with new batteries.
Some guys here are using temperature detection in the 40-45° C range with the Protrak but Iīm not sure if this makes an advantage.

I havenīt tried it as my current version doesnīt have it but I think
there also may be problems with a 3 phase charge.
I try finishing the charging just before a heat for max. performance and with a constant 6 A charge itīs easy to know how long it takes. But with a 3 phase charge this may be difficult.
Another thing is if there is a delay in the timetable or youīre too late I try adjusting the charge current so itīs finished in time. This means I have to lower to 5A or even 4.5A or rise the current up to 7 or 7.5A. With a 3 phase charge I think this is impossible to adjust. What do you think?

Regarding updating the ROM this is also possible with the Protrak and I have done in the past.
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:28 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by KO PROPO Staff
Yes our setting curves are very similar. I think the major difference is the current limiter setting.
ill come out to socal once i get my VFS-1. as for now i need to get some work done!
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:51 PM   #124
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

You have a nice stuffs. Protrak charger is very expensive in Japan.
The cost is over US$750 or so.
Talking about "Punch", I don't think 3 stage charging has "punch"
than Linear charging. I think both has punch if charging method is
appropriate.
You have a high-tech charger & some of high tech charger, like
Robitronic 3 stage charger also has temp. sensor to protect battery heat.
Heat may damage the battery a lot & loose the actual performance, includes "Punch", I believe.
So when you charge battery at 6A, I suspect the battery temp become really hot.
To reduce the temp. 3 stage charger is more preferred.
Because to adjust charging program is to reduce the heat.

Secondly, as you pointed out, capacity increase looks like no so important. I consider this way. If the battery capacity is increased,
the discharge capacity also is increased.
I don't know this is true or correct. (I will test it by using Fortless in the future.)
Discharging is pretty much related with "Punch", so I think
increasing capacity is also one of my important factors.

Most charger does not have temp. sensor, but definitely
temp. sensor provide battery more performance, because of
protecting excessive heat. This is a kinda advantage, because
battery provide more "punch" than heated up battery.
Currently, I am using 45 degree temp. cut setting as well as the setting which I told you yesterday.

Talking about charging time, you have to learn the charging time.
When you use linear charger and then charge 3300 battery at 4.5A, it takes 50 min to 55 min or so.
If you charge record breaker like following setting,charging time is
approx. 40 min.

from 1mAh to 1200mAh (Charged at 4.5A)
from 1200 mAh to 3500 mAh (Charged 8A)
from 3500 mAh to 4700 mAh (charge 3.5A)
*delta peak 24 mV

So, You need to get used to it by using three stage charger.
That means, if you change the setting, it also change the
charging time. However, if you keep in mind that 3300 battery at
4.5A charge takes about 50 to 55 min by linear charger,
you can caliculate when you should start charging battery, because 3300 battery at 4.5A charging is the most taking times
to charge the battery.
In other words, three stage charging is faster than that if you set
up properly.
What do you think of my charging idea?


Quote:
Originally posted by V12
Thanks for your explanation. Sounds interesting.

Iīm using the Protrak charger and this seems to be similar in some areas. With the newer versions there is a 3 phase charging possible also but mine are older versions (10.11 and 10.33). But from what I have heard the linear charge is more punchy than the 3 Phase. At least with the Protrak. Iīm using a 6A charge usually with all my batteries and a 0.04 - 0.06 delta peak voltage depending on temperature.
I always have my batteries discharged before (20A with the Protrak) and an additional equalizing on the Robitronic equalizing boards. Using this I charge about 4200 mAh. Without discharging/equalizing there is about 3700-3800 mAh charge.
But I think you canīt compare any mAh charge numbers with different chargers. I only race 27T and 17T motors so punch is the only important to me. Capacity isnīt very much interesting as we have 5 or 6 minutes heats and usually about 800-1000mAh are left after a run with new batteries.
Some guys here are using temperature detection in the 40-45° C range with the Protrak but Iīm not sure if this makes an advantage.

I havenīt tried it as my current version doesnīt have it but I think
there also may be problems with a 3 phase charge.
I try finishing the charging just before a heat for max. performance and with a constant 6 A charge itīs easy to know how long it takes. But with a 3 phase charge this may be difficult.
Another thing is if there is a delay in the timetable or youīre too late I try adjusting the charge current so itīs finished in time. This means I have to lower to 5A or even 4.5A or rise the current up to 7 or 7.5A. With a 3 phase charge I think this is impossible to adjust. What do you think?

Regarding updating the ROM this is also possible with the Protrak and I have done in the past.
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Old 09-15-2004, 04:47 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by KO PROPO Staff
I have updated the website this morning. The software and instructions for the software have been uploaded. The VFS-1 will be released by Monday.
greetings,

So the VFS-1 will be released Monday? Does that mean I'll have mine arrive at my door step on Friday? Can't wait!

Cheerz
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Old 09-17-2004, 04:42 PM   #126
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Quote:
Originally posted by esmie
In fact, Robet and I tested so many curves already, but now
his curve and my curve setting is very similar.
(Is this correct, robert?)
Talking about record breaker info., I just send PM to you.
When you upgrade the charger, you just send it to them.
Normally it takes a week to be upgraded.
Now, I have two(2) Record Breaker ver 1.5(latest ver) and
one(1) ver.1.2. This is enough, dude!
Next time when you come to SoCal, I will show you Fortless
Discharger, too. This is the same manufacturer made.
You can make matched battery, high current (35A)discharge,
battery condition memo thourgh PC. And so many function....
Hope you like it, too.
Hi esmie,
i had a look at Straight website about recordbreaker and i saw a product called frontline on their website. it said that it is 4ED rapid charger, is it better than recordbreaker? what's the difference?
thank you!
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Old 09-17-2004, 05:27 PM   #127
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Frontline has fixed program. On the other hand, Record Breaker can chage
charging profile. In addition, Frontline is not three stage charger.
So, Record Breaker is much better than Frontline.


Quote:
Originally posted by poop
Hi esmie,
i had a look at Straight website about recordbreaker and i saw a product called frontline on their website. it said that it is 4ED rapid charger, is it better than recordbreaker? what's the difference?
thank you!
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:03 PM   #128
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Quote:
Originally posted by esmie
Frontline has fixed program. On the other hand, Record Breaker can chage
charging profile. In addition, Frontline is not three stage charger.
So, Record Breaker is much better than Frontline.
Thanks esmie! i also have another question for you about vfs1. i downloaded the vfs2000 frequency reccomendation for stock 27T motor from kopropo usa site. can i use those numbers for vfs1? or do i need to double (X2) the number for same drive frequency?
thanks again!
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:46 PM   #129
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Quote:
Originally posted by poop
Thanks esmie! i also have another question for you about vfs1. i downloaded the vfs2000 frequency reccomendation for stock 27T motor from kopropo usa site. can i use those numbers for vfs1? or do i need to double (X2) the number for same drive frequency?
thanks again!
poop... you should be able to use the VFS2000 program on your VFS-1.. it might be a little punchier than your used to. if it is, or if the front wheels are spinning out when you grab a whole bunch of throttle, try increasing the first 2-4 stages to a higher number. also check your brush wear and run time and adjust the esc how ever you feel like it.

from what ive heard from the locals here. (including eiji (esmie), and robert from Ko Propo) the esc has a crap load of punch
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Old 09-17-2004, 11:25 PM   #130
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VFS-1

Hi! It is eiji (esmie) again.
As Hebiki(Chris) pointed out, you can use the same numbers, like VFS-2000.
In this case, you feel punch & it is fast to exhaust battery as well as motor
brush. You don't have to make double number for the same frequency, too.
Of course, you can use the same freq. setting from KO USA, but it seems no point to use it for VFS-1. Because
the frequency is double as VFS-2000. So you can expect more smooth
driving feel.
I recommend you to make similar curve setting, like you did for VFS-2000
at the beginning.


Quote:
Originally posted by poop
Thanks esmie! i also have another question for you about vfs1. i downloaded the vfs2000 frequency reccomendation for stock 27T motor from kopropo usa site. can i use those numbers for vfs1? or do i need to double (X2) the number for same drive frequency?
thanks again!
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Old 09-18-2004, 12:25 AM   #131
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If you have settings done with the VFS-2000 I found that the VFS-1 software will not read it... You'll have to re-input the data again.
My LHS will have them next Tues... Can't wait. Christmas is coming early.
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Old 09-18-2004, 12:37 AM   #132
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Ko Staff,

Does the VFS1 require the use of a shotky, heatsink or power cap like the super condenser? Does it come with these items? If not, what are the advantages of any available options and what are the part numbers?

Thanks
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:29 AM   #133
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Default Your question

I am not KO staff, but I can answer to your question.
Shotky and Power Cap. are included. Heatsik does not come with it.
I think it is not necessary to put it onto VFS-1.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ooj
Ko Staff,

Does the VFS1 require the use of a shotky, heatsink or power cap like the super condenser? Does it come with these items? If not, what are the advantages of any available options and what are the part numbers?

Thanks
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Old 09-19-2004, 07:10 PM   #134
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Default Hara

Maybe this has already been asked a few times when does the new Hara version of the VFS 1 come out??

Its a little hard to go off atsushi hara racing website as its all japenese

Cheers
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Old 09-19-2004, 09:18 PM   #135
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Default Re: Hara

Quote:
Originally posted by Dik Yarx
Maybe this has already been asked a few times when does the new Hara version of the VFS 1 come out??

Its a little hard to go off atsushi hara racing website as its all japenese

Cheers
ive asked robert.. he doesnt know when. its really up to atsushi and his company on when they will release one. it'll just be a rebadged VFS-1 Pro probably in a purple case. my GUESS would be after worlds, even better chance if he wins it all!
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