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Old 11-20-2017, 03:51 PM   #6976
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Another question. I re-assembled my S411 V1 today, and i donīt know if it is normal, but with the car in the air there were 2 things i noticed that felt strange.

1 - there is a lot of play between the set of C-Hub + Wishbone + Steering rods + Steering rack, i think iīve read in the posts that it is normal, but this is almost to the point of setting toe out and camber making no sense

2 - when i turn left or right, at about 50% of the possible steering course, the CVDs are making a lot of clunking sounds, but only with the wheels on, therefore, i put the travel to around 60% and this is much much less evident. However:
2a - is 60% enough for a track ? (not to mention eventual crashes and wanting to get back on track, where loss of turn radius is bad)
2b - when i remove the wheels this stops... itīs rather strange no ?

Also, changed my diff (just 2 cones instead of 4) and put 2000 CPS silicon in it, is this a good starting point ?

Thanks for your help guys! Always appreciated, as you know
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:00 PM   #6977
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Since iīm on a roll here iīll drop another question

I noticed most setups put the upper rear links on the inner hole (on the rear block (diff) not on the wheel hub), however, when i push the car to the side (like when it is curving) i notice that the camber on the outside rear wheel gets positive camber. This felt strange since we want to get full outer tire on the track when turning, correct?

After speaking with a friend, he told me to use shorter arms, so i tried to use the outer hole on the diff block, so getting this it seems that when car is fully curving, the outer wheel has now 0 camber, which i think is optimal ...

This seems common sense, but since this is never what i find in setups, i want to know your opinion i didn't try it on the track yet, but will do later this week ... just curious to know your opinion on this.

Cheers
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:53 PM   #6978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Another question. I re-assembled my S411 V1 today, and i donīt know if it is normal, but with the car in the air there were 2 things i noticed that felt strange.

1 - there is a lot of play between the set of C-Hub + Wishbone + Steering rods + Steering rack, i think iīve read in the posts that it is normal, but this is almost to the point of setting toe out and camber making no sense

2 - when i turn left or right, at about 50% of the possible steering course, the CVDs are making a lot of clunking sounds, but only with the wheels on, therefore, i put the travel to around 60% and this is much much less evident. However:
2a - is 60% enough for a track ? (not to mention eventual crashes and wanting to get back on track, where loss of turn radius is bad)
2b - when i remove the wheels this stops... itīs rather strange no ?

Also, changed my diff (just 2 cones instead of 4) and put 2000 CPS silicon in it, is this a good starting point ?

Thanks for your help guys! Always appreciated, as you know
1. You can/should shim out the play. The car does develop play in those areas after some running and once shimmed out no longer seems to wear excessively.

2. What rims are you running? The Rims could be rubbing on the suspension components. If it is only making the noise when the wheels are installed then there is something not quite right. You need to check it again. 60% isn't a useful figure because it is specific to the servo and radio combination. You need to tell me the degrees lock.

Diff. No that isn't a good starting point. Run 4 gears always. Depending on the track conditions I would start at 5000 (5K) oil and go from there.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:57 PM   #6979
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If the dynamic camber goes positive, it's never a good thing like you said. Get your desired static camber first (normally -1~-2), check dynamic under wheel load on outer tires, then change links. You can certainly shorten the links but angling the links (outside higher) is more apparent for that matter. Just remember changing upper link length and angle changes roll center too. If you don't want to change RC while you're changing dynamic camber, raise entire link on both points with more shims. S411 was very enjoyable car and responsive to set up change when I ran it. Been running Project 4x and I kinna miss s411.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:57 PM   #6980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Since iīm on a roll here iīll drop another question

I noticed most setups put the upper rear links on the inner hole (on the rear block (diff) not on the wheel hub), however, when i push the car to the side (like when it is curving) i notice that the camber on the outside rear wheel gets positive camber. This felt strange since we want to get full outer tire on the track when turning, correct?

After speaking with a friend, he told me to use shorter arms, so i tried to use the outer hole on the diff block, so getting this it seems that when car is fully curving, the outer wheel has now 0 camber, which i think is optimal ...

This seems common sense, but since this is never what i find in setups, i want to know your opinion i didn't try it on the track yet, but will do later this week ... just curious to know your opinion on this.

Cheers
Run the rear upper link in the inner hole. A short link has too much camber change on the 411. It should be inner hole on both the inboard mount and the hub carrier. The reason you have the car developing positive camber when rolling is either 1. Ride height is excessive or 2. Not enough static camber.

Also this trying to measure while pushing the car down etc isn't useful as the forces you are applying by hand are nothing like the forces being applied while on track. So don't do that is my advise. Set the link as I mentioned and run 2 degrees of static camber at ride height with the car ready to run with full electrics and battery installed.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:18 PM   #6981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Another question. I re-assembled my S411 V1 today, and i donīt know if it is normal, but with the car in the air there were 2 things i noticed that felt strange.

1 - there is a lot of play between the set of C-Hub + Wishbone + Steering rods + Steering rack, i think iīve read in the posts that it is normal, but this is almost to the point of setting toe out and camber making no sense

2 - when i turn left or right, at about 50% of the possible steering course, the CVDs are making a lot of clunking sounds, but only with the wheels on, therefore, i put the travel to around 60% and this is much much less evident. However:
2a - is 60% enough for a track ? (not to mention eventual crashes and wanting to get back on track, where loss of turn radius is bad)
2b - when i remove the wheels this stops... itīs rather strange no ?

Also, changed my diff (just 2 cones instead of 4) and put 2000 CPS silicon in it, is this a good starting point ?

Thanks for your help guys! Always appreciated, as you know
I have a feeling no.1 and no. 2 may be associated with each other lol.

1. You need process of elimination. Find where it wobbles. Is it between lower arm and c hub? or the steering buckles and rack? Then fix it like Dan said. S411 doesn't have the best steering rack in the market, especially those earlier version. There is some play always. But it does not affect driving in my experience. But if you think setting the toe has no point because of that, there's got to be something wrong in your car.

2. If you set your EPA to mechanical maximum (until the steering arm touches the c hub), then 60% dual rate in my opinion is not enough given your servo has average throw angle.
The clucking seems to be coming from the wheel touching c hub like Dan said. Better check if the wheel(s) fishtails or is warped. If you have a new set of tires, put those on first and see. Sometimes, the CVD end can get bent and it will make the wheel touch c hub. In both cases, the wheel will fishtail.
You can (should) also check many other things such as if CVD bone is bent in the middle, if c hub sits straight w/o the kingpin loose, if the pin that holds the c hub doesn't move, if the c hub is a tight fit to the pin, if the ball cups on turnbuckles are loose, etc.
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:11 AM   #6982
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Hi guys!
Thanks a lot for the inputs! I will follow your advice and test some of those changes.

Quote:
dan_vector: Diff. No that isn't a good starting point. Run 4 gears always. Depending on the track conditions I would start at 5000 (5K) oil and go from there.
Itīs a low/mid grip asphalt, rubber tires (and i donīt have the extra pair of cones on the diff since i bought this one used!) so i have to stick with 2 instead of 4 for the time being - with that in mind, what oil should i use on the rear diff for starters ?

After looking at the wheels, i dont find them hitting the suspension at any point, i just think its a calibration issue on the wheels that amplifies the play on the other pieces, including a slightly bent CVD axel which in the end adds up to a wobbling wheel and plays a full orchestra. I ordered some new pieces, so lets wait.

Any advice on where to order from within europe ? (service in my country is not the fastest and sometimes waiting 15 days for a piece from the distributor kind of sucks...)

Thanks for your help guys !
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:12 AM   #6983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Hi guys!
Thanks a lot for the inputs! I will follow your advice and test some of those changes.



Itīs a low/mid grip asphalt, rubber tires (and i donīt have the extra pair of cones on the diff since i bought this one used!) so i have to stick with 2 instead of 4 for the time being - with that in mind, what oil should i use on the rear diff for starters ?

After looking at the wheels, i dont find them hitting the suspension at any point, i just think its a calibration issue on the wheels that amplifies the play on the other pieces, including a slightly bent CVD axel which in the end adds up to a wobbling wheel and plays a full orchestra. I ordered some new pieces, so lets wait.

Any advice on where to order from within europe ? (service in my country is not the fastest and sometimes waiting 15 days for a piece from the distributor kind of sucks...)

Thanks for your help guys !
With only 2 gears in the diff you'll need quite thick oil to get the same effect. So at least 5k maybe 8k.

Don't put another CVD in the front, replace them with DCJ's that'll stop a lot of the issues.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #6984
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Well, i suppose you mean these: Serpent Model Racing Cars - Product - Double joint cardan set V2 (2)
Iīm only supposed to use this type on the front, right ?

But it mentions the need for some bearings. Are they the same as the regular ones on my 411 V1 ?

Cheers
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:09 PM   #6985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Well, i suppose you mean these: Serpent Model Racing Cars - Product - Double joint cardan set V2 (2)
Iīm only supposed to use this type on the front, right ?

But it mentions the need for some bearings. Are they the same as the regular ones on my 411 V1 ?

Cheers
No with DJC, you need smaller inner c hub bearing. It's 1-2mm thinner as I recall.
Correction: Not C hub of course, Steering block.
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Last edited by snuvet75; 11-23-2017 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #6986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Well, i suppose you mean these: Serpent Model Racing Cars - Product - Double joint cardan set V2 (2)
Iīm only supposed to use this type on the front, right ?

But it mentions the need for some bearings. Are they the same as the regular ones on my 411 V1 ?

Cheers
YES, those are correct. Only used in the front. The rear uses CVDs.

You will need different bearings in the Steering block (not the C Hub as there are no bearings in the C hubs of course). You need to order a pair of DJC P/N: 401610 and the bearings P/N: 1397 & 1315. Alternatively if you have a different stockist for bearings you need 2x 8x12x3.5 and 2x 5x10x4
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:11 AM   #6987
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Yet another question for the S411:

My inner pivots on the rear, despite having the desired shims (2mm + 1mm + 1mm) still have a lot of play, and i guess another 1mm shim fits in. Do you think i should place another one or is the play in there desired ?

And a general question:
I have a durango Dex 410, pretty dirty at the moment, and I want to clean it, i have a hose at home can i wash it thoroughly with water ? Should i remove the motor as well or mainly the ESC and Receiver ? Are the motors water proof in general ?

Thanks
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:19 AM   #6988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzyme View Post
Yet another question for the S411:

My inner pivots on the rear, despite having the desired shims (2mm + 1mm + 1mm) still have a lot of play, and i guess another 1mm shim fits in. Do you think i should place another one or is the play in there desired ?

And a general question:
I have a durango Dex 410, pretty dirty at the moment, and I want to clean it, i have a hose at home can i wash it thoroughly with water ? Should i remove the motor as well or mainly the ESC and Receiver ? Are the motors water proof in general ?

Thanks
It might be the alu suspension pin holders are worn check if there is too much play between the ball and the alu mount. There should be minimal play and certainly 1mm is not desirable.

You can wash all the plastic and alu parts with water if you want but I would strip down the car completely first and wash the parts with the car in bits. Certainly the steel parts, electronics including the motor and most transmission parts including bearings should be removed and not cleaned with water!
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