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Old 08-29-2004, 08:04 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by itchynads
Gundam, you race some valid points but I feel it would be fairer for you to start a new thread. I doubt Novak are alone in using prototype equipment in races.
You are right....Itchy. I got so riled up when the thread first started.....and it wasn't even available for guys like us and they had already won Sanctioned events.

Sponserd drivers don't understand that when these products hits the shelves, the price is so much out there that only a few can get them right away. Others have to wait for the price to drop. But by them a new and improved product has been used, raced, and it makes the other product obsolete......But to them, it is only another handout.

Now, I find it puzzling that Jkerr, says that locals can't compete with Factory drivers? What now there is a social structure to R/C racing? Thay is why I like the TCS series that Tamyia holds. They at least give local drivers a chance to compete with top drivers. But now I see as long as Sponsered drivers get their yearly goodies for free they have nothing to worry about. Let the locals have cake.............
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:24 PM   #107
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The big name sponsored drivers get the latest best equipment because they ARE the best drivers. They are not the best drivers because they get the best equipment! I have been to enough big races to know that MOST of the time the locals dont compete with the big name guys... they just get in their way on the track. Sorry to tell you that the top guys are in a league of their own. I really hate it when guys tell me "if I just had Barry Bakers battery's" (for example) they could race with the A main guys... it just doesnt work that way. Do you really think that if Novak gave some guy in the C main the prototype speed control he could have made the B or the A? And do you think he could give them quality feedback about the speed control? I dont!
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:30 PM   #108
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Factory Sponsored Guns are in a league of their own most of the time. Every once in awhile a Local or up and comer jumps in, but he has put in the tracktime to do just that. They deserve the best equipment and to test new and better products because they are just that, the best. I have a few sponsors myself but can I jump in with Barry or Josh or Mike and say I'm going to take some names? hell no. That takes years of hardwork and experiecen to even get close, and what if you don't get their at all? Some people are better than others, it will always be that way. Novak has the right to test new speed controls, batteries, and anything else they want to because they want to work the bugs out. I, as a consumer, would like to know a product was tested for a year before I buy one or multiple items. This makes me a strong stander behind Novak and its products.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:33 PM   #109
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It's not about a social stucture, it's a skill thing. I have a battery sponsor. I had some of the best batteries at the Reedy Race. I only made the C main in the 19 turn class. Why? The other guys were better than me. And ottoman is exactly right. They get handouts because they are the best. They're the ones who are helping to develop these products so WE can have better finished goods when it's time to release them. I ran with guys like Hodge, Kinwald, Hara, etc. at the KO Race at Tamiya. They were two laps faster than me. I wouldn't have been on the same lap as Hodapp if I had his ESC (a GTX BTW) They're just faster.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:50 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by ottoman
The big name sponsored drivers get the latest best equipment because they ARE the best drivers. They are not the best drivers because they get the best equipment! I have been to enough big races to know that MOST of the time the locals dont compete with the big name guys... they just get in their way on the track. Sorry to tell you that the top guys are in a league of their own. I really hate it when guys tell me "if I just had Barry Bakers battery's" (for example) they could race with the A main guys... it just doesnt work that way. Do you really think that if Novak gave some guy in the C main the prototype speed control he could have made the B or the A? And do you think he could give them quality feedback about the speed control? I dont!
Okay.....

I said to myself to let this go, however.........

There are better drivers out there than the Sponsered ones, I personally seen a sponsered Losi driver get owned on his own track by a local! Not twice, but three times! Yes there are better drivers out there, they don't either live where the hobby is affluent, but they are out there. I have been through that "Barry Bakers" phase too. Where it got me? A wall! But I know that I have to continue to drive better for myself. However, again I say, there are far better drivers out there that deserves their "A Main of Fame".

As far as quality feedback? We ALL are quality feedback representives, not just the Pros. When a product fails, you turn it in (if you didn't do anything stupid with it) explain to the technicians what went wrong and they will either repair it or give you a new one. If a lot of people return a product that has the same problem, they make revisions, or redesign the whole system altogether. That is what some people call "customer feedback".

Look either way, they get the better end than we do. What do the major manufacturers have to fear? Losing to their own equipment? As far as I know there are three major ESC producers Novak, LRP, and Tekin. I challenge you to take a walk around the pits and see what ESC is in your competitors car. Better yet, I challenge the "sponsered drivers go to their local hobby store, purchase a brand new motor, esc, and batteries, tweak whatever they want out of it and then go to a sanctioned race and win. I would be even bold to say got to a local race with local equipment and see what happens.
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:00 PM   #111
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Well if I have a GTX, I'll Tq and win the worlds! LMAO!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line is the guys at the top of this game are in fact in a leauge of their own. I think that if most drivers concentrated on not hitting any dots and hitting every line they would surprise themselves as to how much faster they would be.


YAYOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAYOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Chris Doseck won Cleveland 12th with a store bought pack!
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:20 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamButter
P.S. Chris Doseck won Cleveland 12th with a store bought pack!
True, but did you see the motor that Troy from Fantom built for him. That thing was a rocket even with a store bought pack.

Gundam--I was at carpet nats when Blackstock won 1/12 mod. Speed and punch wise his car was no faster that any of the other top drivers even though he was running a GTX. Not saying that the GTX is slow or anything. Mike won because his line was much tighter than any of the other drivers. If a perfect lap was a 253' driving line he would drive a 252' line.

John Orr with an off the shelf Q2 could run the same lap times but just not as consistintly.

In mod something as small as a new esc is not going to mean a win or loss for anyone. I could see it being an advantage in stock, but prototype stuff is not allowed in stock.

And remember this is a hobby and its supposed to be FUN. If it becomes an issue where you must win a national and thats all that matters, maybe its time to find another hobby.
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:28 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Hartzell
True, but did you see the motor that Troy from Fantom built for him. That thing was a rocket even with a store bought pack.

Gundam--I was at carpet nats when Blackstock won 1/12 mod. Speed and punch wise his car was no faster that any of the other top drivers even though he was running a GTX. Not saying that the GTX is slow or anything. Mike won because his line was much tighter than any of the other drivers. If a perfect lap was a 253' driving line he would drive a 252' line.

John Orr with an off the shelf Q2 could run the same lap times but just not as consistintly.

In mod something as small as a new esc is not going to mean a win or loss for anyone. I could see it being an advantage in stock, but prototype stuff is not allowed in stock.

And remember this is a hobby and its supposed to be FUN. If it becomes an issue where you must win a national and thats all that matters, maybe its time to find another hobby.



Very True Adam and yes the motor Troy built was a MISSLE!!! LOL!!
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:03 PM   #114
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Well Adam, I don't agree with the idea of using equipment of any kind if guys like us can't have acess to them. You said it yourself it is supposed to be fun. Where is the fun going to races and getting a mudhole stomped in you by a factory or sponsered driver? I watched kids pour their hard earnings into this hobby and be frustrated cause a sponsered driver "field tested" their hardware and take a A main within a fraction of a second. I even watched a mentally challenged kid and his father franticaly comb the pits, trying to look for an edge to win.

You sit here and talk "be a better driver". That is simply bullshit! I know what it takes to cut my lap times in half, tweak my chassis, and squeeze every ounce of traction out of my tires. But then I get the smackdown cause a better better battery, esc, motor, whatever comes out and guess whos using it? The sponsered driver. But there is a saying out there that everyone now uses, "don't hate the player, hate the game".

As far as finding a better hobby; I been at this for over 15 years, from backyard bashing a Grasshopper to running my GT4 in club competitions. I don't "find" another hobby, I have evolved! I "jumped" from running r/c cars to flying r/c helicopters. I am looking to building my first r/c submarine in a year and I am trying to learn Stamp Basic, a simple program that is implemented into fully autonomous robotics. And in between all that I take pleasure of racing other guys (and sometimes winning) for the fun of it. You don't look for another hobby you grow from it.

And yet no one here still haven't convinced me that putting products on the racetrack during events before putting them on the shelves is right. I do, however, have an open mind.........

convince me.
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:31 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by GundamWZero
And yet no one here still haven't convinced me that putting products on the racetrack during events before putting them on the shelves is right.
Weather or not its right is not a point that should be discussed on any thread.

The only recent refrence that I can think of is Josh Cryul. If he had put the C12 on the shelf right after he finished designing it he would be out of business by now. Because he spent time runing the car at Cleveland and teh Snowbirds, the final production kit is a decent car. Same goes for any company.

I drive for PRC. Thanks to the r&d that Dpowell, speedxl, and myself, the Quad12 is one of, if not the best conversion kit for Assc. based 1/12 cars. And we were running the latest version of the car long before it was avialable to the public.

Nobody wants to sell a bad product to customers or they would just lose money.
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:40 PM   #116
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GundamWZero
your starting to sound like the kid with the 80 mph micro

If you gave all the drivers at the nats the exact same cars with the same electronics the same names would be in the top 20.... because they can out drive us all
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:58 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Hartzell
Weather or not its right is not a point that should be discussed on any thread.

The only recent refrence that I can think of is Josh Cryul. If he had put the C12 on the shelf right after he finished designing it he would be out of business by now. Because he spent time runing the car at Cleveland and teh Snowbirds, the final production kit is a decent car. Same goes for any company.

I drive for PRC. Thanks to the r&d that Dpowell, speedxl, and myself, the Quad12 is one of, if not the best conversion kit for Assc. based 1/12 cars. And we were running the latest version of the car long before it was avialable to the public.

Nobody wants to sell a bad product to customers or they would just lose money.
* after aruging with myself about posting here again and losing.....*

I never once said that R&D shouldn't be done. I said that putting a completed product on a racetrack during a event, before it is sold to the public is wrong. Come on, guys. You aren't talking to a child here. R&D is done first! In my book, selling the product comes second, and then racing the product comes last! what are you trying to do here? beat all the guy on the track to show that your car is better, then sell the product? Hecks let the consumer find that out! Like I said before, once you put a product, I don't care what it is, on a race track during an event, is no longer called R&D! It has been researched and developed to death! You are out to win with a product not available to anyone else. The Taurus, the Lumina, the Monte Carlo, and Dodge put their cars on a showroom floor to be sold to the public before any one of them saw a NASCAR circuit!

HPI put the RS4 on the shelf before anyone thought it could be a competitive TC. And after it showed it was a success they developed the Pro, Pro2, 3, and 4. Not to mention the nitro series. Even Associated came out with the nitro conversion kit before it came out with its nitro racing platform for the TC3.

I can sum it up this way; this debacle I've been having is with a couple of sponsered drivers! Just look back to when you first started, before you got sponsored, and tell me how hard it was to compete with the sponsored driver then.......

I am through with it.......
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Old 08-29-2004, 11:21 PM   #118
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I really cant understand your point of view. I do not want to test an esc for novak that im going to have to send back 3 times, you have any idea how much time away from the track that is? Also, you talkabout how much better peoples packs are and motors. If you were half as good as you say you are you wuold have no problem getting those things. The public can buy the top perect of stuff! YOU CAN buy 1.8+ packs, you CAN BUY balistic motors, you can buy all this stuff to make you fast. If you were to take this stuff and even place in the a or b main at the mod nats which you seem to think you are good enough for, no longer would you be one of the people paying for everything! All the pros out there had to earn their way with standard equipment BEFORE they get any of this. Not to mention its not their choice to do this testing. THIS IS THIER JOB, they do what there told. I personally think you are way out of wack and need to step back and examine what your saying. Only then will you realize how far off you really are.
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Old 08-29-2004, 11:31 PM   #119
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If you think the cars that run Nascar are close to what is sold on the showroom you are seriously confused. Sorry to be so harsh, but that's a bad example to try to prove your point.

Last edited by psmart2; 08-29-2004 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 08-29-2004, 11:43 PM   #120
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I give up. This guy obviously has issues and will never change his mind.
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