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Old 01-23-2011, 02:04 AM   #1
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Cool Timing and FDR ...

Hello,
Ive been asking a few questions on the speedpassion/lrp thread, but I havent goten an answer so i thoughg id ask here .
What Is the difference between ESC timing and motor timing ?
Some people at my track run a lrp x12 13.5 ( like me ) but they are abit faster down the straight so i was wondering if i could change the timing .
Now, what is a goodFdR for a medium mixed indoor track ?
Thanks
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:15 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
Hello,
Ive been asking a few questions on the speedpassion/lrp thread, but I havent goten an answer so i thoughg id ask here .
What Is the difference between ESC timing and motor timing ?
Some people at my track run a lrp x12 13.5 ( like me ) but they are abit faster down the straight so i was wondering if i could change the timing .
Now, what is a goodFdR for a medium mixed indoor track ?
Thanks
Basically they are running a setup with their power system that yeilds higher top speeds either through more timing, more gearing, or both. With modern ESC's you set "dynamic" timing levels which means a maximum amount of timing. You may not always use the set amount as it will vary as defined by other settings. Motor timing is fixed and you will have that setting with its advantages and consequences at all times.

Now about your ESC settings... All the various speedies need different gearing when compared to each other using the same motors. For this reason you are better off chasing a good ESC setup and FDR from the SpeedPassion or Hobbywing threads. 1/2 the people that reply to this thread will probably just tell you to buy a Tekin.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:59 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
Basically they are running a setup with their power system that yeilds higher top speeds either through more timing, more gearing, or both. With modern ESC's you set "dynamic" timing levels which means a maximum amount of timing. You may not always use the set amount as it will vary as defined by other settings. Motor timing is fixed and you will have that setting with its advantages and consequences at all times.

Now about your ESC settings... All the various speedies need different gearing when compared to each other using the same motors. For this reason you are better off chasing a good ESC setup and FDR from the SpeedPassion or Hobbywing threads. 1/2 the people that reply to this thread will probably just tell you to buy a Tekin.
Ok, so il try that again.
So from what I understand, the ESC timing doesnt affect power at all ? It's just there to set a limit to the max timing ? Am I getting you right ?
What would be the best way to gain abit of top end and compensate with the torque ?
Cheers
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:23 AM   #4
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Dynamic timing is just that. That means it is applied as a function of time, revs or both. Not sure which is which becasue the manufacturers don't tell, but that's the idea. A rev based dynamic timing is the best idea, but am not sure anyone actually does it. Tekin (which I am familiar with) has a rev range, but that is set and once entered, timing starts to be applied regardless of whether the motor can actually use it or not. What the software allows you to do is apply a certain amount of timing over a band of revs. This means that if you choose the wrong band or the wrong slope (deg timing/rev range) it will result in overheating.

Ideally, the sensors should communicate with the speedy and not allow the timing to increase if the motor can not speed up for whatever reason (drag, etc). At the moment sensors only communicate to the speedy to tell it which phase is next to be energised. I am not quite sure about this, but I suspect this is what happens in most speedies. My reason to believe this is the simple fact that if the speedy would read the rpm and stop applying more timing than the motor can use, the motors would not overheat.

To use torque is simple, gear low. That however is going to limit your speed. Sure, BL motors have huge torque compared with brushed but they obey the same law: torque is inversely proportional to revs. There's no free meal. But you're right, you can give it more timing and gear low, so you get back some of the torque. It may not be necessary however, because of the aforementioned high torque of BL motors, just as long as you don't jump the gun with the gearing.
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Dynamic timing is just that. That means it is applied as a function of time, revs or both. Not sure which is which becasue the manufacturers don't tell, but that's the idea. A rev based dynamic timing is the best idea, but am not sure anyone actually does it. Tekin (which I am familiar with) has a rev range, but that is set and once entered, timing starts to be applied regardless of whether the motor can actually use it or not. What the software allows you to do is apply a certain amount of timing over a band of revs. This means that if you choose the wrong band or the wrong slope (deg timing/rev range) it will result in overheating.

Ideally, the sensors should communicate with the speedy and not allow the timing to increase if the motor can not speed up for whatever reason (drag, etc). At the moment sensors only communicate to the speedy to tell it which phase is next to be energised. I am not quite sure about this, but I suspect this is what happens in most speedies. My reason to believe this is the simple fact that if the speedy would read the rpm and stop applying more timing than the motor can use, the motors would not overheat.

To use torque is simple, gear low. That however is going to limit your speed. Sure, BL motors have huge torque compared with brushed but they obey the same law: torque is inversely proportional to revs. There's no free meal. But you're right, you can give it more timing and gear low, so you get back some of the torque. It may not be necessary however, because of the aforementioned high torque of BL motors, just as long as you don't jump the gun with the gearing.

The ESC does keep track of the RPM of the motor. Knowing which phase to energize next, and the amount of time until the next sensor is trigged gives you the RPM. (Simlple math function).


If you want to know more amount brushless motors. Take a read in Electrical Machines, Drives, and Power Systems. ISBN 0-13-093083-0

Back to the original question. If you think they are faster ONLY in the straight, Add alittle turbo. If you are running a fixed timing class, add some end bell timing, and lower your FDR by 1 tooth on your pinion (YOu are running 64P right?)

It could also be driving lines, the last corner before a straight away is really importent to get the right line to maximize your straight speeds.

Shawn
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:34 AM   #6
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For Timing and Boost ESC's it's always a good Idea to get a base line with standard Timing on the Motor and No boost or Timing in the ESC.

Once you get the best gearing for that setup then start playing with the ESC but remember to gear down a tooth or 2 and Reduce motor timing to compensate for the timing advance in the ESC. Then watch your temps and adjust where you think you will gain performance where it cam be used.

Not all situations can make faster lap times with use of timing and Boost. Just look where you think that more speed or more torque can help you out.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:07 PM   #7
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Just go buy a Tekin....

Sorry Dragonfire could not help it..

Compared to a Tekin the H/W (&LRP motor) seem to like a higher roll out or lower FDR number. Add a tooth to the pinion and see if u can reel them in down the straight.. With the new H/W software you can add allot more timing then before so I would not be putting too much timing on the can as u will loose punch down low.. leave it up to the speedie for top end/turbo timing option 12..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
Basically they are running a setup with their power system that yeilds higher top speeds either through more timing, more gearing, or both. With modern ESC's you set "dynamic" timing levels which means a maximum amount of timing. You may not always use the set amount as it will vary as defined by other settings. Motor timing is fixed and you will have that setting with its advantages and consequences at all times.

Now about your ESC settings... All the various speedies need different gearing when compared to each other using the same motors. For this reason you are better off chasing a good ESC setup and FDR from the SpeedPassion or Hobbywing threads. 1/2 the people that reply to this thread will probably just tell you to buy a Tekin.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
Hello,
Ive been asking a few questions on the speedpassion/lrp thread, but I havent goten an answer so i thoughg id ask here .
What Is the difference between ESC timing and motor timing ?
Some people at my track run a lrp x12 13.5 ( like me ) but they are abit faster down the straight so i was wondering if i could change the timing .
Now, what is a goodFdR for a medium mixed indoor track ?
Thanks
What speedo do you have? What size is the track? Where is you motor timing now? More motor timing may work if your temperature is good. If you have a pro stock 2.1 where is your drrs? It will also be a good adjustment for out of corners and stright speed as well.
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