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Old 01-21-2011, 04:32 PM   #46
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gashuffer, you asked why MantisWorx would design a car on a platform that no longer exists. Well, I can't speak for him, but I represent a car builder that has also been working on a fully independent suspension 2 wheel drive F1 car, and the reason is that we believe that F1 should once and for all move out of the archaic pan car design mode and into something that more truely reflects the spirit and design of a real F1 car.

The Tamiya F201 was a fully independent suspension F1 car, but it failed because it was 4 wheel drive, real F1 is not, it was too heavy, and it was too complex. We believe that a 2 wheel drive fully independent suspension F1 car can be built that is lightweight, simple to work on, and offer superior handling as compared to any of the current crop of rc F1 cars available. In short, if done right, it will be the car to beat!

Maybe MantisWorx will want to weigh in with his thoughts on this.

I also agree with him that we need innovation in rc F1 racing. I believe F1 should not be made up of a bunch of "cookie cutter" cars that is basically nothing more than a glorified spec class. RC F1 should more reflect the true spirit of real F1 racing and be cutting edge in car design. Isn't that one of the primary reasons that we watch F1 races on TV; we want to see these awesome, futurisitic, cutting edge racing cars that are like nothing else on the planet! Every year around this time we go on the internet to the various F1 sites eagerly awaiting the release of each of the teams new designs for the year. It all starts next week with Ferrari when they reveal their new car on the 28th and in the weeks to come we will see McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes, Lotus and all the others reveal theirs as well.

I would like to see rc F1 be more like that.

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Old 01-21-2011, 05:25 PM   #47
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Well put, I get your point. So are you working on a IFS front suspension?
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:28 PM   #48
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"It all starts next week with Ferrari when they reveal their new car on the 28th and in the weeks to come we will see McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes, Lotus and all the others reveal theirs as well."

I would like to see rc F1 be more like that.

As we all would, making the brand better than it is even though it works now is where it should go. I would race if the thing was made of tin. D-drives work because they are simple. A full suspension car has been the dream of a lot of racers but there is a cost in design and materials. I know what you are talking about and it can be done. It will take $$ to get the cost down which could work the way the 201 sales went through the roof. But a car like what we are talking about would have more staying power than the F201 and would allow for more room to grow and update Just like the fullsize F1's. The parts count would be a little higher of course so watch those pennies at first then get out there and slam the d-drives. Of course they will still be around for a long time. They still work.
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:33 PM   #49
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...and very well.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:13 PM   #50
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Not only are we working on a independent front AND rear suspension, but here's the real kicker: The car will also feature D-drive!!! Imagine that!

Watch out pan-based F1 cars, the future is catching up with you!
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:44 PM   #51
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I'm all for it! By the number of components needed for the rear it may be a little heavier than a 103 but it should be lighter than the F201 which was realistic but why did they make it 4wd??? I took the front diffs out of mine and they go very well with a 19T. Change the springs, tires, and throw everything else away. It's still heavy but not likely to be raced, parts are getting scarce. But it is fun to drive when I'm the only one on the track. Now if I could find some bolts to get rid of the front housing...
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:31 PM   #52
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well mine, will not be direct drive but will have longitudinal motor placement, i think with the available power and high torque motors, weight is not going to be an issue. most of my parts are in i have to machine the arms and figure out how i am going to mount the shocks as well as figure out what battery size i will use. it will be ready by the race and i may even race it!
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #53
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Egads! A car builder racing his own stuff? You should be in Honolulu at the beach counting all the money.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:38 AM   #54
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So I guess the independent suppensions are legal in the national santioning bodys rules. The last one I ever bought was an ABC hobbies 2wd car back in the days.Also sat an listened to a major company discussion many years ago about doing the same thing to 1/12th and 1/10th pan cars.But the rules everyone went by said solid axles in the rear.
So far this sounds like it's going to be one BIG club race.Have fun.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:20 PM   #55
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It depends on whether or not you race under ROAR rules. ROAR does state that 1/12 and 1/10 pan cars and F1 cars must have solid rear axles. They in effect are forcing the overall configuration of those types of cars to be stuck in what is an archaic design that actually dates all the way back to slot cars in the 1960's. The first on-road electric rc cars where basically 1/12 scale slot cars with a rc unit and no guide shoe or braids. Just look at the design similarities of both. That was back in the 1970's; fast forward to 2011 and really not much has changed with regards to 1/12 and 1/10 pan cars.

Now some racers like it that way as it is a design philosophy that they are familiar with and understand. Others like myself are totally bored with that archaic design and would like to see more innovation and fresh new concepts for 1/12 and 1/10 pan cars and F1 cars.

So I say to heck with ROAR, run this new F1 series the way you want. Who needs ROAR anyways to tell us how to design and race an F1 car!!
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:59 PM   #56
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"So I say to heck with ROAR, run this new F1 series the way you want. Who needs ROAR anyways to tell us how to design and race an F1 car!! "

That much is true. Roar has it's place and has some good people in there now. But for this to grow it has to work on it's own to advance and establish itself. Gather a few people you can trust around the country that has been hardcore in F1 and keep in touch with them to talk about what is a good idea and what is not. A loose advisory group to start. When it comes together then we can set the rules which will be the standard for every big event. This type of race can happen in any part of the country every year. That would make ROAR see that we are here to stay with our own rules which they should adopt to have true national champions. If not, we race anyway and we still win.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:37 PM   #57
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ROAR already has rules for this class.Making a simple car more complicated drives people like me away for this chassis. This is why I don't race Touring cars anymore.As I said before good luck.
You or someone mentioned that companies like CRC would make an F1 - They did- still have the main chassis.I did better with the Tamiya chassis (F103).
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:27 PM   #58
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I still have two of the CRC's, very cool cars along with several others of different brands. Roar is specific about some rules (no independant suspension) and general about others "Indy, IRL,F1 bodies". Ok, the purist out there will run F1 only but I can live with that. I guess showing up with my saddlepack F103 Tamiya car is out of the question though. Not so much that it's not legal but that it's more than 10 years old. Did they change that much or did I miss something?

But that's not why I'm here. If Mantis and enforcer wants to improve the breed then have at it! As long as the dimensions are correct why hold them back. And here is why, remember when the slash came out? Everybody said "stock slash only no mods! Well that didn't take long for everybody out there to jump on the bandwagon with the motor and chassis they had contracts for, Then it was 4wd versions and so on. You see where I'm going here don't you? Let the 1/10 pancars race, it will only make it better. Let this event go to other areas even twice a year if they want to do an east/west whatever for Tamiya style and 1/10. If the builders see what is going on then they will jump in for more sales. How many TC's were on the market when that topped out? A bunch. This may not go that far but it's a good direction to start. But that's just my opinion. You may start cussing me...now!
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:48 PM   #59
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I remember in the 90s there were a lot of direct drive transmission with independent rear suspension. Go for it!
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:02 PM   #60
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So far the same old d-drive cars that have been around for 10 plus years still win when up against even the newest cars, taking the 103 for example. If it isn't broke don't fix it is the mentality, yes switch a couple things around to make it new( look at TC cars, those companies release two cars a year with subtle changes) but thats about it. Considering that Tamiya is pretty much the standard when it comes to F1 most newcomers will start with them rather take a chance on something that is obscure and not supported everywhere.

I agree on taking a platform and tweaking it to make it simpler and yet still perform great but trying to change everything and start fresh is difficult to do.
Either way I hope this event takes a turn for the best. Good luck with it. I would attend if I lived close enough.

Just my .01
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