Proposed R.O.A.R. rules change
#227
Tech Legend
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Castle Mamba Max Pro. Feel its power!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 21,220
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We ran a 17.5 Blinky no timing class at are dirt oval race this year (460 plus entries) and had no problems teching this class and no problems with cheating what so ever. It was very easy to police. Both the Tekin and Castle speedos where used and checking for the ROAR blinky no timing was a breeze for me and the other tech. Don't get much easier. Very simple.
At the end of the day no matter what rules you make and no matter how much you try to control classes the end result is the fast guys with boost will be the fast guys without because they drive and setup their stuff better than others and that will first and foremost win races. The best drivers and setups will always prevail.
At the end of the day no matter what rules you make and no matter how much you try to control classes the end result is the fast guys with boost will be the fast guys without because they drive and setup their stuff better than others and that will first and foremost win races. The best drivers and setups will always prevail.
#228
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
All hobbies bring out the hobbiest on the fringe of genius.
There is a racer who figured out how to make a Tamiya M-04 (rear wheel mini) go really, really fast years ahead of everyone. There are also a handful of racers who are able to make a Tamiya Silver Can motor (closed spec motor) double it's performance. These are all hobbyiest.
Within our 3 local tracks we have a racer with a PHD in mechanical engineering. We also had a PHD Physicist student visiting from China who contracted on the development of the HobbyWing ESC (OEM for SpeedPassion). We have a guy who reprogrammed his JR radio for the fun of it. We also have the typical local XBOX gamers and Cisco network engineers. All these guys live on technical challenges. These guys couldn't figure out how to change brushes or add comm drops. It was difficult for them. But feel right at home with an EEPROM and a laptop.
Breaking in to a ESc screwed together to play with timing and manipulate some LED lights on command is Hacker 101.
BTW, some of the best software engineers that I work with come from India. The Indian government came up a electronic voting machine where all the code is on a single chip encased in untamperable epoxy. This system runs on batteries in a 3rd world environment and is cheap and flawless. It was offered to the US but rejected. Go figure.
Auto racing is a mechical sport. ...whoever physically crosses a line first within a physical distance or physical time. All three undeniably measurable and tamperproof. Therefore, all the specs should be mechanical for a spec class where the cars have more capabilities compared to their speeds.
MOD racing does not have these issues, go as fast as you can personally handle. - all mechanically and limited by physics.
#230
Tech Master
iTrader: (8)
you misunderstand my statement. i did not say that each club can choose their own rules for each class. what i said is that each club can choose the classes that they use to compete locally, but to have rules defined for each class. the idea may be to have a spec 17.5, 17.5 boost, spec 13.5, 13.5 boost, and mod. then the clubs choose among these classes, but each class has well defined rules. this allows clubs to run what is popular in the area.
This is a great idea...it would end this debate.
#231
When all is said and done we will all find a place to play with our toys with the equipment WE want in it. I don't blame any one company or any one person for the changes.For me I think a total ban is wrong and it sends the wrong message.That's my opinion and i am entitled to it.
I thank Tekin for being the salient in the ESC business and I hope they continue to be the customer oriented business they are.How many other companies can you just pick up the phone and ask to speak to the president and he takes the time to talk to you. I know there are others out there like that but not many.
R.O.A.R. is doing what they think is best and I can't fault them for it. What ever happens this hobby will survive,racers will find a class to race in and all will be right with the world.
I started this thread to spark communication and to get ideas. I want to thank ALL of you for keeping civil and NOT letting tempers guide your posts. We can work together to to find common ground and this thread is proof.
I only wish that the president of R.O.A.R. had come on here and made himself available to answer some of the questions directly(not that he has to explain anything that the company does), oh well no harm no fowl.
Again thank you all for be civil, smart, creative and inspiring!
Mike "hairy" Henderson
owner and driver for Merlin Racing
I thank Tekin for being the salient in the ESC business and I hope they continue to be the customer oriented business they are.How many other companies can you just pick up the phone and ask to speak to the president and he takes the time to talk to you. I know there are others out there like that but not many.
R.O.A.R. is doing what they think is best and I can't fault them for it. What ever happens this hobby will survive,racers will find a class to race in and all will be right with the world.
I started this thread to spark communication and to get ideas. I want to thank ALL of you for keeping civil and NOT letting tempers guide your posts. We can work together to to find common ground and this thread is proof.
I only wish that the president of R.O.A.R. had come on here and made himself available to answer some of the questions directly(not that he has to explain anything that the company does), oh well no harm no fowl.
Again thank you all for be civil, smart, creative and inspiring!
Mike "hairy" Henderson
owner and driver for Merlin Racing
#232
#233
#234
I would like to see the boosted stuff phased out of everything but mod. I think, in most cases it helps the fast guys go faster and the slow guys struggle more. We race tc at our local track and the rules are pretty simple and easy to police. 17.5, any timing on the motor you want, but no on the boost speed control. This makes it easy to join the class and go to other places to race this class, and more importantly be competitive there. It is too much to add in all the settings for the average club racer to figure out at their home track let alone go to another track and race competitively. For example in, 12th scale, I would love to see us try 13.5 with no boost. The average person could pick up a $50 speedo and join the class and not have to worry about the "turbo ramp" settings etc. I know I would be more willing to travel to other tracks and run classes that are more based on chassis setup and driving skill than having that extra wad of stuff to figure out. This is just my $.005
#235
Tech Adept
First off I am not a ROAR member and don't particularly want to be as I'm not involved in ROAR sanctioned racing. However; I do enjoy racing and race regularly in our local club, but I REALLY enjoy the technical side of the hobby and devote a good portion of my spare time to tinkering.
What I really don't want to see happen is for technical advancement to cease and products become unavailable because they are outlawed in ROAR racing.
I really appreciate the effort that Tekin, Novak and similar companies have invested in this technology, and quite frankly I want to see more. I think there is still a lot more potential to be tapped in brushless motors, ESC's, etc., and support the effort to tap into it and it appears that there are quite a few people with similar ideas.
I don't know how much of this hobby worldwide is dictated by ROAR, but if the rest of the world doesn't get on board and instead demands further advancement in the technology then the Tekin's, Novak's and other companies will either provide the products or get surpassed by Chinese or other designers and manufacturers in other countries that are willing to fill the void.
Believe me, I fully understand the reasoning behind ROAR's proposed change, but I believe it is a big mistake and I hope that the clubs and especially the manufacturers will not support it. Unfortunately this will have the effect of further diminishing ROAR's status in the sport, which is unfortunate.
What I really don't want to see happen is for technical advancement to cease and products become unavailable because they are outlawed in ROAR racing.
I really appreciate the effort that Tekin, Novak and similar companies have invested in this technology, and quite frankly I want to see more. I think there is still a lot more potential to be tapped in brushless motors, ESC's, etc., and support the effort to tap into it and it appears that there are quite a few people with similar ideas.
I don't know how much of this hobby worldwide is dictated by ROAR, but if the rest of the world doesn't get on board and instead demands further advancement in the technology then the Tekin's, Novak's and other companies will either provide the products or get surpassed by Chinese or other designers and manufacturers in other countries that are willing to fill the void.
Believe me, I fully understand the reasoning behind ROAR's proposed change, but I believe it is a big mistake and I hope that the clubs and especially the manufacturers will not support it. Unfortunately this will have the effect of further diminishing ROAR's status in the sport, which is unfortunate.
#236
I would like to see the boosted stuff phased out of everything but mod. I think, in most cases it helps the fast guys go faster and the slow guys struggle more. We race tc at our local track and the rules are pretty simple and easy to police. 17.5, any timing on the motor you want, but no on the boost speed control. This makes it easy to join the class and go to other places to race this class, and more importantly be competitive there. It is too much to add in all the settings for the average club racer to figure out at their home track let alone go to another track and race competitively. For example in, 12th scale, I would love to see us try 13.5 with no boost. The average person could pick up a $50 speedo and join the class and not have to worry about the "turbo ramp" settings etc. I know I would be more willing to travel to other tracks and run classes that are more based on chassis setup and driving skill than having that extra wad of stuff to figure out. This is just my $.005
i think if you are going to say spec, then it need to be "SPEC"
#237
Tech Master
iTrader: (8)
Going to blinky is great, but banning current speedos that can run blinky mode seems draconian. Seems like there would be an easy way to detect timing advance through the sensor wire on a tech bench?
I'm running 17.5 boosted sedan right now and really enjoy it, although I understand that the cost of entry isn't cheap, and neither is learning the boosting game. If the class suddenly went blinky, I'd go back to playing with my off-road cars and wait for mod sedan to become available at my local track as it isn't right now.
I'm running 17.5 boosted sedan right now and really enjoy it, although I understand that the cost of entry isn't cheap, and neither is learning the boosting game. If the class suddenly went blinky, I'd go back to playing with my off-road cars and wait for mod sedan to become available at my local track as it isn't right now.
#238
Tech Addict
iTrader: (22)
I would like to see the boosted stuff phased out of everything but mod. I think, in most cases it helps the fast guys go faster and the slow guys struggle more. We race tc at our local track and the rules are pretty simple and easy to police. 17.5, any timing on the motor you want, but no on the boost speed control. This makes it easy to join the class and go to other places to race this class, and more importantly be competitive there. It is too much to add in all the settings for the average club racer to figure out at their home track let alone go to another track and race competitively. For example in, 12th scale, I would love to see us try 13.5 with no boost. The average person could pick up a $50 speedo and join the class and not have to worry about the "turbo ramp" settings etc. I know I would be more willing to travel to other tracks and run classes that are more based on chassis setup and driving skill than having that extra wad of stuff to figure out. This is just my $.005
#240
devil's advocate. why not limit the motor as well. is it not an issue to have one motor with no timing change and the another to have a full 360 degree timing ring? i mean brushless motors are almost as much as speedos at this point. a custom build N motor is $109 and a tekin rs is $130. even a general public available N motor is $90
i think if you are going to say spec, then it need to be "SPEC"
i think if you are going to say spec, then it need to be "SPEC"
In sum, I just want to see on-road grow and prosper here and everywhere, and I think we have to look at reducing sticker price and complication to help it do that.