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Old 01-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #61
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What's funny is that the same whiners that say that costs are getting out of hand so they force other people to buy yet another esc, are the same ones that are buying a frigging $600-700 chassis every 1 or 2 years. and blame the esc for letting the cost go out of hand!!
Yeah man, that Dynamic ESC is so hard to handle, programming is near to space shuttle development.....

Luckily i have total control on all the parameters off my chassis, now thats a theory that everbody does understand, there the learning curve isn`t steep....lol

Most off the people that complain about the dynamic speedo, arent slower then other because they cant program it, it`s because they cant drive or just dont get the setup right.....then they say, ooh man, that guy is going faster then me because off the special speedo settings.
No guys, its because the other guy is putting more hours in the hole proces off rc racing. Offcourse they like the speedo...

Now its only the stock class, but most manufacterers want it out off all classes. Thats the goal off all this bs in the end.

And then mod, who wants to drive a dynamic esc on a 6,5 turns motor, yeah, Hara, Groskamp and Reinhard...but for locals thats far to expensive.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:15 PM   #62
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Hah, I'm a legend!

See that, robk, nobody is talking about your stupid posts in that last thread!
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:17 PM   #63
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We always say: Beer and Chips...
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:22 PM   #64
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Changes brought forth are good, but there should still be a 17.5 boosted class left in there. Doing away with it entirely will just alienate racers who enjoy running this class. ROAR needs to think about being more inclusive of racers vs. exclusive, within reasonable parameters.

Stock should be slow, and the speedo change is fine, given the phase out period and the low cost of the non-programmable ESC's nowadays. Maybe they should put a $$ cap on how much a speedo can cost in the spec and Amateur Classes- much like mod motors could not cost more than 90 dollars back in the day. Otherwise, someone will find a way to make the ESC's expensive and faster yet again.

If anything, take away either the 17.5 or 21.5 non-boosted class chose one and make it a MANDATORY privateer class, where people are not allowed to cross over into the boosted or mod classes. Having both non- boosted classes is kind of redundant. This is again, is hard to monitor.

The best solution I could suggest is to leave all 4 classes available. BUT, make a requisite of a minimum of around 20 entries to make it a class at a National and 10 entries at Regional Events. If the minimum is not met, then the class is not run. This has several benefits:

1.It caters to the location where the event is held. Different clubs run different classes, in different parts of the country. Instead of dictating what they can run, sanction what they are already running. THINK LOCALLY!!! No two 2 clubs are exactly alike.

2.It prevents from classes to get thinned out too much.

3.It gives the freedom to each club to select what is run based on what is popular. No one entity knows this better than the individual club. This will make people embrace the changes rather than feel like they are being forced down their throat. This will also lead to have higher draws at events in each class as people will have to be participating in categories that have enough Quorum to become a "National" or "Regional" Event.

Again, I believe the changes are with good intention, and definitely a step in the right direction, but outlawing boosted set-ups will lose followers of ROAR and affect industry leaders such as TEKIN terribly. ROAR has a responsibility to promote and protect the racers, but also the RC Industry. The minimum entry requirements would mitigate the situation very well. Those that don't want to spend as much or work as much can stay with the non-boosted set-ups and those that do, will stay happy having the faster class that is not quite modified. I suggest to let the market work itself out in each area of the country with the proper guidelines and rules that will help promote racing and be inclusive of what people like at each particular location. There is no need to kill a class, just require there to be enough participation for it to become one at EACH INDIVIDUAL event. Again, be INCLUSIVE, not EXCLUSIVE.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:27 PM   #65
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Again, I believe the changes are with good intention, and definitely a step in the right direction, but outlawing boosted set-ups will lose followers of ROAR and affect industry leaders such as TEKIN terribly.
I don't see a problem "outlawing" boosted classes, but rather the non-legality of boosted ESC's even in "blinky" mode.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:28 PM   #66
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wow...thats sad....there goes tekin (even though it can be set to spec mode)

isnt it spec class should included the motor also...meaning 0 timing?
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:34 PM   #67
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The problem is that the concern is rising costs. If ROAR and the racers are worried about this, then just outlawing boosted set-ups will not really address the concern. Some company will find a way to make a better speedo by throwing money at it and the price will reflect this with the end consumer. This, in turn, will still lead to more expensive equipment. If the concern is cost, then address the cost.

Some people like to run boost, some don't. I say let it be. It is an argument that will never be won by either side. We need to embrace what we have in common to promote this hobby not fight over what we don't agree. Over-all what I see we all have in common is that we like to race toy cars- how we power them is just a detail.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:35 PM   #68
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Gee......I wonder how long until a certain company has a zero timing motor and speedo combo that just happens to look like a gtb for the new stock class?
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:36 PM   #69
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Roy +1
We all know what some of the driving forces are for these rules and that is also to make money, moneys makes people to make some bizarre error in judgements (hello any bankers here ?!)...hence banning certain esc brand and types so people are forced to buy low budget esc from certain brands that only can be used in certain classes. Move a class up...ok buy yet another esc!! Very cost effective and cheap indeed.

Price difference as an example?
Cirtix stock= $50
Hobbywing xerun 60A updatabeble esc which last at least 4 years and can be used in almost every class = $75
Tekin rs= $175 with great support and updatable and can run till 5.5t so very versitile in almost all classes and last at least 4 years.

WOW difference of $25 or maybe $100 more that can be written of in 4 years man that is at least $12 to $25 per year!!! But hey to buy another chassis of $600 every year is OK!!

Man i wish i came up with that marketing plan. Yeah really very expensive these updatable esc.

And you know wich brand are the most pushing non updatable esc and saying it is so difficult and saying many esc went into smoke because technology can't cope with it or some other bs. They are the same brands who's esc turned sour on them and can't keep up!

Come on, who are they kidding? RC cost money but don't say that $25 or even $100 that can be written off in 4 years has made it more expensive. Who are they kidding. The updatable esc has made it cheaper to race in the long term so don't force some bad attempt on short term cost control!

I admit, to program an esc is 1 to 2 days of testing to find out what it does but that is now part of the hobby.

No one is crying about the fact that they had to learn to operate Microsoft Windows version v.xxxx every 2 years or so or any other programm for that matter.

To push some virtual levers and see what it does is not rocket science, although some would want people to believe it is.

Yo...Don't believe the hype!

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Old 01-11-2011, 02:38 PM   #70
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You forgot the "everything would be better if we could just run Paragon guy."
Actually, that guy is now the President of our local RC Club!

As someone who owns 4 Tekin RS's, I take particular offense to this "Seemingly Inevitable" Rule change.
Locally, many Racers are "Going Along to Get Along" with the NO Dynamic/Ramped/Boosted/VooDoo ESC movement. Not all who Go Along agree with this, However, I'm the only one who is voting with my "Wallet/Feet" over this. I think more of us should do the same!

With the ROAR Carpet Nats fast approaching (likely the First/last big Race I'll attend), "The Powers that Be" should have "Plenty of Food for Thought" served up! (If They Care). Gonna be an interesting 2011.........
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:42 PM   #71
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Actually, that guy is now the President of our local RC Club!
I didn't know Robert had a brother?
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:45 PM   #72
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Man i wish i came up with that marketing plan. Yeah really very expensive these updatable esc.
Marketing is just cooked air....wish i had developed the dynamic ESC, would make me more proud and happy...
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:52 PM   #73
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Gee......I wonder how long until a certain company has a zero timing motor and speedo combo that just happens to look like a gtb for the new stock class?
I'm smellin' what you stepped in!

I had the very same thought as soon as their software for their flagship flashable ESC turned into a total and complete train wreck. Couple that with VTA going to 25.5 and there being no other viable outlet for the stock of 21.5s.....well, it was just a matter of time!
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #74
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I didn't know Robert had a brother?
He's P.T. Barnum's "Not-So" Great Grandson!
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:56 PM   #75
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Gee......I wonder how long until a certain company has a zero timing motor and speedo combo that just happens to look like a gtb for the new stock class?
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I'm smellin' what you stepped in!

I had the very same thought as soon as their software for their flagship flashable ESC turned into a total and complete train wreck. Couple that with VTA going to 25.5 and there being no other viable outlet for 21.5s.....well, it was just a matter of time!
Speed Passion beat them to the punch. They have a 0 timed speedo and a fixed timing motor (guessing @ 0 degree). It doesn't look like a GTB.
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