R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-27-2011, 08:40 PM   #661
Tech Elite
 
nashrcracer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LA - Lower Antioch
Posts: 4,911
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
First of all it's VTA, and secondly, that main in Indy was far from your finest performance I also find it hilarious that you have a bd in your VTA car
it's was more of a statement then that it had an advantage. The kicker was the $350 speed control was in my Xray T3R which goes for $275 on stormer hobbies. I qualified 4th behind a GTB and a Citrix and a Havok but I beat the Tekin. yes the main was not the highlight of the weekend. fast lap in 12th scale was!
__________________
RC50 As you come into this world, something else is also born. You begin your life, and it begins a journey towards you. It moves slowly, but it never stops. Wherever you go, whatever path you take, it will follow never faster, never slower, always coming. You will run, it will walk. You will rest, it will not. One day, you will linger in the same place too long you will sit too still, or sleep too deep. And when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours. Your life will then be over.
nashrcracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 10:46 PM   #662
Tech Elite
 
rx7ttlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,521
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Personally I am all for a reasonable entry level class. However, pushing new rule sets annually is not the solution. Back when stock was "stock" we had locked timing, spec winds, and limits on interpretations of the rules for motor builders(IIRC). Banning blinking / timing esc's isn't really the most viable option. That forces the people that already have equipment to buy more stuff just to be legal. This stock crap has changed way to many times. First it was 13.5, then it was 17.5 with a little timing(LRP sphere tc), then it was 17.5 open timing/boost(tekin etc open), then it's 17.5 blinky no timing(tekin spec software upgrade), then its 17.5 buy a spec speed control cause tekin etc isn't legal. Come on, how about a spec formula and better written rules. Rather than deciding that someones interpretation of the rules isn't legal.

Sounds like Roar needs to sit down with racers, manufacturers and figure out a reasonable solution rather than just mandating how things will be. Allow current blinky no timing esc's, have a 2012-2014 frozen spec stock motor like DTM has. Where motors are revised a max of every 2 years and the spec the company wants to sell for a 2 year period gets submitted to roar and frozen. Exceptions for quality control / reducing catastrophic failures. That way racers don't have to wait out rules changes and buy new motors and esc's when they don't have to. And naturally look to manufacturers to have a cost effective decent price point brushless motor / esc combos for the new racers. Because for the MFG to switch tooling and develop new hardware all the time eats at their bottom line, increasing shelf prices OR decreasing profits. Personally I think that with the brushless motors we should be taking advantage of the longer service life and less maintenance, buying a new esc/ motor every year or two to match the rules is annoying when the gear I had last year worked fine with the revised no timing software.
__________________
|Team Xray | RC America |MAX Engines | Hudy |Jaco | KO PROPO |"From Slovakia with Love" T3 | Team Timezone |

Timezone Raceway & Hobbies - http://www.timezonehobbies.com
rx7ttlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 11:01 PM   #663
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,927
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

The combination of first lipo batteries, then brushless timing advance technology happened on a time line that made it appropriate to make repeated changes. There has never been a time in electric racing when available power has changed so much. With every change stock got faster by a greater margin than was possible before. It seems like the rules are jumping around a lot and they are but it's because historically unique circumstances.

I agree that if a speed control has a verifyable means to disable the timing features then it should be allowed to be used but on the other side, guys who own Tekins and other top end speed controls don't have any problem with spending money on new gear, just being told that they have to slow down. To them I say the same thing I've said since the late 80's, "step up and race modified".

The removal of timing advance has me buying stock motors and racing stock for the first time since then.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 11:07 PM   #664
Tech Champion
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,524
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

STOCK WAS NEVER "STOCK"
__________________
semi retired..
skypilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 11:10 PM   #665
Tech Elite
 
rx7ttlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,521
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
STOCK WAS NEVER "STOCK"
Up till the late 80's stock was stock. lol. Stupid 1990's... Changed everything lol
__________________
|Team Xray | RC America |MAX Engines | Hudy |Jaco | KO PROPO |"From Slovakia with Love" T3 | Team Timezone |

Timezone Raceway & Hobbies - http://www.timezonehobbies.com
rx7ttlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 12:33 AM   #666
Tech Addict
 
GP40X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 720
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
STOCK WAS NEVER "STOCK"
AH YOUNG PADIWAN, you do not remember a long time ago at a track far far away where everyone ran Silver can motors and Sanyo Ni-Cad 1200 mah batteries. One of Roar's first motor rules was locking the End bell and later the com so timing could not be tweaked in stock class. All of that went away with brushless.
__________________
Bill
"I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused."
Team Qik
CustomWorks Outlaw Sprint Car
Xray T3 2012 USVTA
GP40X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 05:43 AM   #667
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 761
Default

That is an interesting and very good point. Stock class (27t) had locked timing thru can design and armature design the last few years before brushless. 19t started that way then adjustable timing and handwound arms were allowed then poof the class got out of control. Having seen the 19t story I think it is one thing ROAR is trying to avoid.
The locked 17.5 and 13.5 motors are a return to what we had before.

As stated many times here, the highly programmable speedos are taking us to uncharted territory. ROAR is proposing a rule that will place a limit on them. But this thread is about the boost and not the motors, that just kind of evolved here.
old_dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 07:16 AM   #668
Tech Champion
 
stiltskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 5,368
Trader Rating: 102 (100%+)
Default

How many entry level classes do we need? Wasn't that the reason the VTA, Mini, WGT, RCGT, 17.5 non-boosted, classes were created? Boosted speedos have allowed us to run fast cars and maintain safe motor temps (when not trying to get stupid). Are boosted speedos (or the perceived software nightmare) the real issue or is this a way to control the speedo monopoly? There were lots of us that didn't want to run 19t because it was harder on cars, too fast for small tracks, whatever. Now we're running 17.5 boosted cars that are way faster than 19t ever was. We have had lots of new faces over the past couple of years. Some of them jumped straight into boosted, some went for non-boosted and others decided to play in VTA. We already have too many entry level classes. I keep hearing that we need a class like the slash. We already have those. We haven't dumbed down 4wd buggy or 2wd buggy to create entry level classes. They stay the same and you drive what you can control. Nitro has a novice class with the same motors that the big guys are running. Electric is getting out of control trying to solve a problem. The irony is that the solutions that are offered just add to the problem. Too many motor classes, too many racing style classes and too many rule changes. All we need is 17.5 boosted, mod, and (insert one of the many niche classes that we've created to bring in new blood). Let's race.
__________________
Tony Rumple
Team EAM // Gravity RC
stiltskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 07:27 AM   #669
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
How many entry level classes do we need? Wasn't that the reason the VTA, Mini, WGT, RCGT, 17.5 non-boosted, classes were created? Boosted speedos have allowed us to run fast cars and maintain safe motor temps (when not trying to get stupid). Are boosted speedos (or the perceived software nightmare) the real issue or is this a way to control the speedo monopoly? There were lots of us that didn't want to run 19t because it was harder on cars, too fast for small tracks, whatever. Now we're running 17.5 boosted cars that are way faster than 19t ever was. We have had lots of new faces over the past couple of years. Some of them jumped straight into boosted, some went for non-boosted and others decided to play in VTA. We already have too many entry level classes. I keep hearing that we need a class like the slash. We already have those. We haven't dumbed down 4wd buggy or 2wd buggy to create entry level classes. They stay the same and you drive what you can control. Nitro has a novice class with the same motors that the big guys are running. Electric is getting out of control trying to solve a problem. The irony is that the solutions that are offered just add to the problem. Too many motor classes, too many racing style classes and too many rule changes. All we need is 17.5 boosted, mod, and (insert one of the many niche classes that we've created to bring in new blood). Let's race.
+1

Maybe making things simple and consistent for a number of years is the key. Investing in a TC, regardless of the class and rules, is tough to do if the rules keep changing.

I do like how Nitro is doing it, but aren't on road nitro numbers worse than electric?

With that being said, the only reason I don't own an on road nitro car is pure cost. When I purchase a car, I don't like to be out equipped. So I always buy what I feels is the best gear. Whether it makes me faster or not, doesn't matter. It's piece of mind knowing it's me and not the car. Some of the costs of nitro engines is just intense. Add to the fact that they only last so many gallons is even worse.
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 07:40 AM   #670
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: E-Town Posse
Posts: 1,573
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakk View Post
+1

Maybe making things simple and consistent for a number of years is the key. Investing in a TC, regardless of the class and rules, is tough to do if the rules keep changing.
Bravo bravo. Listen roar to this, leave well enough alone. Decide on rules and stick with it. I think racers are tired of buying new stuff cause roar wants you to. You stop that and I think u will see new faces in the industry.
__________________
Team Associated, Reedy, Tekin, Futaba, Putnam, Protoform, BSR, SXT, Reflex Racing, McPappy Racing, TQ Wire, Swifty Designs
Jeff Cuffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:21 PM   #671
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Stop sending Roar a membership fee and they will go away.........
jakespeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:49 PM   #672
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,002
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I agree with the ROAR proposal.

It's not about fast drivers being fast, or wasting money to buy new equipment.

It's about rules, that if adopted moving forward, would attract new blood to on-road.

It's about new people, who are going to buy equipment for the very first time. It's about speeds that will not totally wreck a person's car in a crash and destroy $200 worth of equipment.

And it's still the local track owners choice to adopt the rule or not. At least the option is there.

Just my opinion.
__________________
www.rccartips.com
www.f1rccars.com
www.f1rcclub.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/rccartips/
http://www.facebook.com/RCCarTipsFan
rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:38 PM   #673
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,772
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

We had our first "big" race on asphalt this year and it was pretty hot out today. I saw more motors go up in smoke from running 17.5 and 13.5 blinky today than I have seen smoke in over 2 years of running boost at every track.

No boost is awesome
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 05:18 AM   #674
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
We had our first "big" race on asphalt this year and it was pretty hot out today. I saw more motors go up in smoke from running 17.5 and 13.5 blinky today than I have seen smoke in over 2 years of running boost at every track.

No boost is awesome
Interesting: When we ran no boost in WGT our temps dropped 20-30 degrees. if we geared higher the cars didn't get faster just hotter.
I guess the people that had motor problems need to remember how to gear their cars. Just like we had to learn how to not cook a motor when running boost.

In other words, just another learning curve.
old_dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 07:09 AM   #675
Tech Champion
 
MikeXray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 5,749
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_dude View Post
Interesting: When we ran no boost in WGT our temps dropped 20-30 degrees. if we geared higher the cars didn't get faster just hotter.
I guess the people that had motor problems need to remember how to gear their cars. Just like we had to learn how to not cook a motor when running boost.

In other words, just another learning curve.
That's because your running 1s.
__________________
Mike L. Awesomatixusa.com | TQWire.com | Islandraceway.com |JacksonRCracing.com | Horsham RC | Sweepracingusa.com
MikeXray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's wrong with racing in OZ Craig1 Australian Racing 94 01-21-2003 08:24 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:56 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net