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Old 05-26-2011, 09:41 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
+1

I ran a LRP sphere at my club track and wasn't any faster then I was with my Tekin. and at the Region 5 race in Indy my $350 black diamond got beat by a gtb a havok and a citrix in VTA class and trust me I'm no slow driver.
First of all it's VTA, and secondly, that main in Indy was far from your finest performance I also find it hilarious that you have a bd in your VTA car
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:38 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Sorry robk. I was re-reading the thread and saw some older posts stating the the $60 esc wouldn't run with an LRP, TEKIN, or SP programmable. I've never seen any of these $60 escs in person, so I have only the information provided by trusted names like KevinK and yourself to go by. So in this case I defer........

But I still view spec esc's as a bad idea.
Iím not really sure whatís the issue? The cheap ESC's that are non programmable...run just as good as the blinky ESC's on the blinky settings. Some classes that have outlawed certain ESC's are done because of past actions. You learn from it donít repeat it. ROAR has been burned twice now by ESC software....Iím sure it will happen again. So if ROAR wants spec ESC's or what ever then we really have no one to blame but the tools that broke the rules....knowingly or not.

Spec ESC's work for races or race series....it seems to work just fine for the ETS for the stock class. The same rules can be used for a national race or race series. As far as making it a national rule that you have to use 1 ESC for a class thatís not a good idea....but for a single race or a series of races then I donít see the issue.

Like you said this is all for Sedan cars....12th scale or single cell on-road cars are just fine the way they are....I have no idea what Oval is doing.

Is everyone talking about this like its going to happen but has ROAR even said what they are doing or are they just looking into it?
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:24 AM   #648
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SteveP:

I am glad you are watching. I made my initial comment because I saw very little activity here(this thread) since the first wave. We recently tested non-boosted WGT at our local track and by no means was the racing any less fun. The cars are still fast.

I hope you noted my comments on the oval crowd, I know there isn't anything really going on and them and ROAR. The major series in this area (east of the Mississippi) all have their own rules. Our local track has hosted a couple of their races and what goes on there is crazy compared to on-road. That is where you really see the issues ROAR is trying to contain.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:31 AM   #649
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KevinK:
I am sure there will be a list of approved ESC's just like there is now for the "Blinky" mode classes so there won't be a single "Spec" ESC. As always your local track has to choose if they want to follow ROAR's lead or not. Racers that routinely run at ROAR events will want to practice with the rules package.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:24 AM   #650
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As author of this thread, what I have found is that there a two seperate schools of thought here: 1.slow down the racing to get new people in the class
2. create a new class for the beginner.
Boost will NOT go away,that genie has been let out of the bottle and it WILL NOT Go back in.What WILL happen is that if R.O.A.R. persists in an attempt to "outlaw" it you will see a large decline in the membership.People still want to race and go fast,and they will.I know for a fact that the club I race with has dropped the R.O.A.R. membership requirement because they have found insurance that is better and cheaper. So now you have a large group that moving away from the orginazitation. They are very succesful because they have not tried to restrict the racer but created a class that allows folks to run NON BOOSTED if they choose and both non boosted and boosted classes are growing year by year.So you see trying to get rid of boost is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:12 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
Sure Ron... HPI makes the Flux 2. It would be perfect for VTA if it came with a VTA compatible ESC/motor, not the one it comes with. Think on-road Slash. There's your beginner class.

1/12, WGT, Stock TC aren't beginner classes, so don't dumb them down.
The Flux 2 is actually a Castle sidewinder and Castle 5700K motor rebadged.

You say Stock TC is not a beginners class. Well it used to be before programable ESCs nuked the class and ROAR is trying to get back to the original intent of the class.

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I don't think you can compare VTA to Slash. Create a out of the box RTR VTA TC and maybe it will be a slash.
HPI came closer with the Sprint 2 Sport but you still have to change electronics (ESC & motor), put meatballs/numbers on it, and install a driver to get it 100% VTA legal. Still about $400.00 - $450.00 with buying a battery and charger and this is if you DON'T upgrade the radio.

If HPI would upgrade their radio to a 2.4 RTR grade radio, and make a deal with Novak, Speed Passions, LRP, or find another manufacturer to make a VTA legal ESC and motor it would greatly enhance the chances of VTA taking off as a parallel to what happened with the Slash in Off Road. With their plethora of modern Sports Car bodies they could also release several RCGT cars with proper elecronics to jump start that class (most young kids would much rather drive a new Mustang or a tuner body RCGT than an old VTA one). This get them in the door and hopefully they stay around for awhile.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that ROAR needs to put in pricing rules. That has been done previously and didn't work (the best motors always wound up in the hands of the sponsored drivers). Any one remember the mandated ROAR stock motor price in the late 80's - early 90's?

Maybe ROAR ought to set the rules that Stock is 21.5 with non-boosted non-programable ESCs and allow blinky mode/programable ESCs in 17.5 & 13.5 Superstock classes. Allow the tracks to set boosted on non-boosted for superstock at the local level.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:40 PM   #652
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Hey hairy! ooh,ooh, is it my turn? 48 pages pages of what the heck is a rookie/newbie/ beginner and why do they have to run the high dollar cars and electric stuff. Has anyone seen the price of the new associated 1/12? That used to be cheap racing. If these guys (not putting them down I know a couple of them) should think of "real" entry level. Give them a class or classes that demand low cost gear. How many years have I been telling everyone to start...really start with a $17 silvercan and a low budget esc like the duratrax sport. I tell all the new people that they will never go fast until they learn how to slow down. In most cases more power usually means same laptime and forget about practicing. Anyone want to chime in and say that's not fair racing? Those motors are still fast and dependable. But, it is the nature of people to buy the best they can afford thinking they will go much faster. Usually they just get to the crash before everyone else. I'll keep my 103's that have been running since I bought them many years ago. Tires, body's That's about all they ever need Only the Mini's can come close to that. And they fly with a silvercan. Hairy's was faster though, but it may have been hairy.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:02 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
there needs to be a balance between uber technology that caters to high-end racing, past or present, and keeping the door open and making it inviting and exciting for new people to become involved.
Kinda goes along with what I was saying earlier...that if there is going to be a novice class or a class for everyone that is also good for the novice...it needs to incorporate both the lower end or spec equipment and the higher end equipment in such a way that both are competitive. For a couple of reasons...first off being that in a lot (if not most) places there just isn't enough novices to have a separate class for them and more experienced racers will need to race with them to fill out the class. Also for those novice racers there will be a lot that want to get the inexpensive RTR and go race but there will also be those that want to buy the best stuff up front. Granted the latter is a smaller group but they do exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
It has to be fun, or they won't be back. The hobbyist doesn't know (or care) if the ESC is Spec, or boosted, or whatever. The first question they invariably ask is "how fast is it"?
+1
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:21 PM   #654
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Hey hairy! ooh,ooh, is it my turn? 48 pages pages of what the heck is a rookie/newbie/ beginner and why do they have to run the high dollar cars and electric stuff. Has anyone seen the price of the new associated 1/12? That used to be cheap racing. If these guys (not putting them down I know a couple of them) should think of "real" entry level. Give them a class or classes that demand low cost gear. How many years have I been telling everyone to start...really start with a $17 silvercan and a low budget esc like the duratrax sport. I tell all the new people that they will never go fast until they learn how to slow down. In most cases more power usually means same laptime and forget about practicing. Anyone want to chime in and say that's not fair racing? Those motors are still fast and dependable. But, it is the nature of people to buy the best they can afford thinking they will go much faster. Usually they just get to the crash before everyone else. I'll keep my 103's that have been running since I bought them many years ago. Tires, body's That's about all they ever need Only the Mini's can come close to that. And they fly with a silvercan. Hairy's was faster though, but it may have been hairy.
That's what I was saying earlier...silver can and the ESC no longer matters. New drivers could either go with an inexpensive brushed ESC or for the more techy new drivers then can get the latest greatest BL ESC that is capable of running brushed motors as well. The only issue I see to this is in what type of chassis is used for the class. As we found out here...silver cans are not as durable as they used to be. We ran them in our version of VTA and people started burning them up left and right. But they are bullet proof in lighter cars like the F1 cars. But with AWD easier to drive maybe something like a 1/10th version of the HPI Micro RS4 is needed. A chassis that is pretty simple, light weight, and still AWD. Something like that with any flavor of realistic looking TC or VTA body could be quite a hit I think.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:30 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by mxrich View Post
Hey hairy! ooh,ooh, is it my turn? 48 pages pages of what the heck is a rookie/newbie/ beginner and why do they have to run the high dollar cars and electric stuff. Has anyone seen the price of the new associated 1/12? That used to be cheap racing. If these guys (not putting them down I know a couple of them) should think of "real" entry level. Give them a class or classes that demand low cost gear. How many years have I been telling everyone to start...really start with a $17 silvercan and a low budget esc like the duratrax sport. I tell all the new people that they will never go fast until they learn how to slow down. In most cases more power usually means same laptime and forget about practicing. Anyone want to chime in and say that's not fair racing? Those motors are still fast and dependable. But, it is the nature of people to buy the best they can afford thinking they will go much faster. Usually they just get to the crash before everyone else. I'll keep my 103's that have been running since I bought them many years ago. Tires, body's That's about all they ever need Only the Mini's can come close to that. And they fly with a silvercan. Hairy's was faster though, but it may have been hairy.
My mini is fast not just because of the motor it's turning 15k rpm,but i have been working on the car for over a year now and that also is part of the equation for speed.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:24 PM   #656
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My mini is fast not just because of the motor it's turning 15k rpm,but i have been working on the car for over a year now and that also is part of the equation for speed.
That's the ticket! Some people will always be naturaly better than others but give them the chance to learn as well. And there is no danger in asking those in your class how to setup a chassis or gearing or where to put the stickers and so forth. When they are smooth and ready let them jump. Remember when Mike Alessi came into the 450 MX class before riding the lites class like everyone else? All that hype did not make him a winner. Now he has matured and is more consistent overall and more to the front more often. He is not my favorite rider but is getting better. More laps = fewer crashes.

"Nash! What's wrong with a barbie doll? I ran a rugrat head for a year on my F103 and the crowd loved it!"
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:34 PM   #657
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I've said this a hundred times. Onroad is hurting it's own growth, not the programmable esc's. Offroad wasn't affected by the esc's.

Onroad needs an entry level race class and race car. Short course blew up propelled offroad racing everywhere. It looks like something that the user watched on TV, they can buy 'em at Pepboys for example,etc.

The Sprint is a viable chassis. Perhaps this "entry level" class needs to have a costs cap on the chassis, esc's, motors,etc to make it work.

Look at what options work, which ones can actually be controlled, eliminate the ones that cannot, and don't shut any doors you will regret not being able to re open at a later date.

ROAR maybe the "voice" but they will need the retail public to buy into this "cause." This is where ROAR and the manufacturers must work together cohesively.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:22 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by mxrich View Post
That's the ticket! Some people will always be naturaly better than others but give them the chance to learn as well. And there is no danger in asking those in your class how to setup a chassis or gearing or where to put the stickers and so forth. When they are smooth and ready let them jump. Remember when Mike Alessi came into the 450 MX class before riding the lites class like everyone else? All that hype did not make him a winner. Now he has matured and is more consistent overall and more to the front more often. He is not my favorite rider but is getting better. More laps = fewer crashes.

"Nash! What's wrong with a barbie doll? I ran a rugrat head for a year on my F103 and the crowd loved it!"
Using Alessi as an example
Have you been following his results lately ?
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:28 PM   #659
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I asked this same question a couple pages ago and haven't got an answer

what ESC [besides Novak] will be allowed in the new class??



Thankx, Bill

ps more than likely our local club will continue to allow the 'Blinky' mode ESC's

pss Hi Randy!!
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:34 PM   #660
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I just dont get it. Economy sucks people dont have as much disposable money as they used to and once again they want the racers to spend more money. The question i have is why did brushed motors have locked timing and brushless motors are what ever the manufacturer wants..
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