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Old 01-16-2011, 08:35 PM   #541
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foam is cheaper and more fun, had 3 heats of boosted 17.5 sedan today
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:37 PM   #542
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foam is cheaer and more fun. 3 heats of 17.5 boosted today
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:42 PM   #543
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getting back on topic. after 36 pages i think us racers have basic some concepts we need to agree on -- lets ignore the chassis/tire questions for right now and just focus on rubber tc and foam 1/12th.

1- how many years should rules be in effect for? 1 year? 2 years? for an entire season (indoor / outdoor)?
2- how many classes per popular chassis config (2s rubber tc & 1s 1/12th)? two or three (or more...)
3- what motor/esc configs make sense for these classes?
4- how to make ROAR Nats (and Regionals) gain popularity/sex appeal within the community (i.e. what makes IIC, Snowbirds & the Reedy race so good)?
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:09 PM   #544
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I've been following this thread since the beginning, stopping myself from posting when it would be nothing but emotionally charged and defensive.

To me, what makes IIC, Snowbirds, and Reedy so popular is that the classes included are ones that guys are passionate about, without major deviations from each other, or ROAR, for that matter.

VTA guys are extremely passionate about their class, and it looks like it would be fun, but limiting things down to a single manufacturer makes it a non-starter for me. Same goes for TCS.

I really see no problem with the current class structure I've seen for carpet or asphalt tracks I've looked into or raced with.

For Touring this would be:
17.5 Non Boost - STOCK
17.5 Boosted - Super Stock
Track Option - Some larger tracks have a 10.5, or 13.5 class or other spec wind
Open Mod

For 1/12:
17.5 Non Boost - STOCK
13.5 Boosted - Super Stock
Open Mod

WGT:
1s 13.5 Boosted

At our local track, the 1/12 class used to be 10.5, and for a lot of guys, it's too much. For others, like myself, it made the learning curve pretty expensive, but I don't race to save money. With that in mind, and with the growth in 1/12 that it seems like we could see, for this season, we're running Boosted 17.5. A visiting racer with a Non Boosted 17.5 proved the point that there's really not enough difference between boosted and non on 1s to keep the same motor wind between Stock and Super Stock.

I also don't think this class structure will carry directly over to off-road either, the days of identical power rules for all classes with the same designation [Stock, SuperStock, Mod], IMO, are over.

This argument could go on forever. To me, Spec wind boosted classes add another tuning option that can't be avoided to be competitive, and I love that. I like adjusting my car to handle the way I think it should, or to suit my comfort level, and that includes power delivery.

There are some Spec classes I like to race, but the number is very small, and definitely the exception.

As far as Regional races becoming more important: exposure and coverage. I don't think I've ever heard anything about any ROAR racing in my region, and certainly no series. Nobody is going to race if nothing's ever formed and advertised. Until individual regions get more active, there's nothing but more overbearing regulations that could be put in place to hurt attendance even more at the ROAR Nats.

Because of the lack of formalized ROAR Regional events, local tracks have teamed up to hold a trophy State series this upcoming asphalt season. If we have to do it ourselves or it never gets done, then there's even less incentive to bother with ROAR beyond the vehicle class specifications in the rule book.

If my schedule is agreeable, I've been looking seriously at attending the Asphalt Nats at Jackson this year, for no other reason than to see how I can battle it out in the G-Main If these proposed rules become gospel, however, I'll save my money, be glad I haven't put in a membership registration yet and put it towards Snowbirds in 2012.

Again, I don't race to save money, but I'm not going to race something I'm not passionate about.

I think trying to ban updatable ESCs in all but open mod is a mistake. If this decision sticks, I'm glad I still have my nitro cars.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:27 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
getting back on topic. after 36 pages i think us racers have basic some concepts we need to agree on -- lets ignore the chassis/tire questions for right now and just focus on rubber tc and foam 1/12th.

1- how many years should rules be in effect for? 1 year? 2 years? for an entire season (indoor / outdoor)?
2- how many classes per popular chassis config (2s rubber tc & 1s 1/12th)? two or three (or more...)
3- what motor/esc configs make sense for these classes?
4- how to make ROAR Nats (and Regionals) gain popularity/sex appeal within the community (i.e. what makes IIC, Snowbirds & the Reedy race so good)?
hey mike,
1. i think rules should be effect for one year and if they are good why change them, however i don't think you could go on a calendar year jan 1 dec 31 because the indoor rules would change during the middle of the season, just for example here in the northeast pretty much all electric tc racers go inside regardless of weather in sept. so maybe indoor season could be sept 1 to april 1/outdoor season mid april-end of aug, i understand this could be tweaked to work with the rest of the regions but that is prob pretty close.

2. TC classes i think you need 3,

3.right now i would go with 17.5 blinky stock, 17.5 open esc superstock and mod, not sure about 12th scale

4. roar reg held throughout the regions all the same weekend (think NCAA march madness as a guide) and it must be a qual for roar nats if you dont race the reg you can't go to the nats, if guys who do qualify can't go they must tell their reg rep and you go down the list and you have a couple of wildcards/lottery selections based on region AND YOU MUST RACE THE REGIONAL EVENT IN YOUR REGION no living in reg 7 and racing in reg 8 for what ever reason. what makes reedy/iic/birds so good is that they are held pretty close to if not the same weekends every year and the events are run well.

sorry if i made too much sense . . .
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:08 AM   #546
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Maybe I missed this part of the discussion...
I am asking this seriously BTW. Not intended as sarcastic or as argument bait. Just sincere questions and musings.

I mainly care about 12th and when I go to Nationals and IIC etc I feel right at home in the stock and Super Stock classes. Are there any esc's available to be bought new ATM that will fit in a 12th scale (height is the issue here) that aren't programmable? The only one that I can think of that isn't updatable and would fit is the Sphere and Sphere Comp 07 and I would imagine it would be tough to my hands on one new.
Maybe the idea is by the time the 2012 season rolls around were hoping a company has filled the void? Half the reason I run the RS in everything I own except VTA is the size. If this goes through the way I understand I might just have to man up and run mod classes!
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:42 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by magnum View Post
foam is cheaper and more fun, had 3 heats of boosted 17.5 sedan today
+1

17.5 open speedo open tire/ foam sedan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJL9X...e_gdata_player


Stock 1/12 open speedo 17.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUJP7...e_gdata_player
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:23 AM   #548
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Who ever said foam was cheaper- never ran it at a big event on a touring car.

Even with a tire sponsor I was doing EASILY 100.00 in tires for a large event. Truing them all down to an ideal racing size, running them once to scrub in, then after about 4 packs they were practice tires.

Yesterday, i ran a set of Sorex/speedmind 28r's that I bought in 2009 for the 3 touring car races i ran then-- Yes, used tires. I ended up qualifying 2nd at my local track, where at least ONE very well known driver was also racing. We battled for most of the main and he ended up getting me by about a quarter lap. (10 second/lap track) Not shabby for my 2nd race back.

I did not have to figure out rollout once-
I did not chunk a tire-
I did not have a pound of dust under my shell-
this well over a year old set of tires, which probably have about 20+ packs on them, will be run again and again until they DROP.

but then again- this is not a discussion about tires



@ Chris= a couple posts up. I disagree with the "Must run in own region". I am a prime example of that not working. I am at the extreme end of region 1. The closest carpet track in my region, is CRC= about 3 hours drive- and they're not quite suited for touring- after them are the tracks in NYC/Ma/Ct.. 450-500 miles away.

A mere 200 miles away is the Gate, and just across the Canadian Boarder is the track i would consider home. Back in the day, this would have been called region 16- now it is region Canada.


I am sure there are similar situations around the country- where racers who very well could be national caliber drivers, would be forced to travel an unreasonable distance to compete. IMHO, this could be part of the reason that the regional races have lost their flare.

I once drove to RC Madness in CT-- about 500 miles, and raced the guy I drove with. = NOT COOL.


Now- I dont know if it should be by approval of the regional director and the track hosting the race- or if it should go higher than that. BUT- Regional events should be open to those residing in the region, AND those who live within X miles of the location of the race. This would be for situations where the track being located geographically close to a regional boundary.



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Old 01-17-2011, 07:58 AM   #549
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Another area of discussion is does the size of USA present its own problems in ROAR within their rules?

does having different regions within ROAR further complicate things?

(If it doesnt then great, but when you are the other size of the pond it looks a bit different "looking in" as opposed to actually being there )
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:04 AM   #550
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You're also writing from a country that is the size of what- a few states?

We definitely need the different regions for travel purposes- but also for climate differences.. Some parts of the country race certain classes at specific times during the year-


this is another reason why the system is flawed. As someone mentioned earlier- it makes no sense to have rules come into effect for a calender year because the racing seasons run based on the weather.

it needs a reboot.

ROAR should really pony up here.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:07 AM   #551
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To be honest, I think the tire situation has already started to sort out. Foam is just about dead in touring. Rubber won't work in 12th as is.

For me, the biggest change that is needed is to slow onroad racing down in general. Stock seems to be too fast for new racers. Mod is too fast for most as is and only getting faster.

Stock is relatively easy to slow down. Mod isn't very easy to pull back but it doesn't need to go very far.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:10 AM   #552
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To be honest, I think the tire situation has already started to sort out. Foam is just about dead in touring. Rubber won't work in 12th as is.

For me, the biggest change that is needed is to slow onroad racing down in general. Stock seems to be too fast for new racers. Mod is too fast for most as is and only getting faster.

Stock is relatively easy to slow down. Mod isn't very easy to pull back but it doesn't need to go very far.
Agreed- to an extent. I think 17.5 boosted is a nice speed for stock. Though, if they are saying mod isnt much faster- (i dont know- i have been gone a while ) then perhaps I should run mod.. lol..
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:27 AM   #553
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Agreed- to an extent. I think 17.5 boosted is a nice speed for stock. Though, if they are saying mod isnt much faster- (i dont know- i have been gone a while ) then perhaps I should run mod.. lol..
Mod isnt much faster laptime wise due to lack of traction....but SPEED wise and POWER wise Mod is way way faster!

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Old 01-17-2011, 08:29 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by Keith Billanti View Post
@ Chris= a couple posts up. I disagree with the "Must run in own region". I am a prime example of that not working. I am at the extreme end of region 1. The closest carpet track in my region, is CRC= about 3 hours drive- and they're not quite suited for touring- after them are the tracks in NYC/Ma/Ct.. 450-500 miles away.

A mere 200 miles away is the Gate, and just across the Canadian Boarder is the track i would consider home. Back in the day, this would have been called region 16- now it is region Canada.


I am sure there are similar situations around the country- where racers who very well could be national caliber drivers, would be forced to travel an unreasonable distance to compete. IMHO, this could be part of the reason that the regional races have lost their flare.

I once drove to RC Madness in CT-- about 500 miles, and raced the guy I drove with. = NOT COOL.


Now- I dont know if it should be by approval of the regional director and the track hosting the race- or if it should go higher than that. BUT- Regional events should be open to those residing in the region, AND those who live within X miles of the location of the race. This would be for situations where the track being located geographically close to a regional boundary.



keith you make a good point about the regions, and if there is enough planning time ahead i dont see why not with approval before hand from a region rep, i just know a couple a years ago people kinda just did whatever they wanted for the regionals and that is not really fair to the host track.
region A and region B have there roar reg and i don't like reg A track or i am better at the reg b track so i am going to go there etc stuff i think we need to stay away from...
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:47 AM   #555
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Agreed- to an extent. I think 17.5 boosted is a nice speed for stock. Though, if they are saying mod isnt much faster- (i dont know- i have been gone a while ) then perhaps I should run mod.. lol..
Boosted 17.5 is a good speed for an experienced racer but it's too fast for new racers. For the most part onroad needs new racers to grow. There are several ways to bring in new people but if the slowest ROAR class is too fast they will quickly get frustrated and quit. I've seen this happen countless times.

13.5 is a nice inbetween class but we need more racers at the track before it will work.

Like EA said mod is a totally different animal compared to stock. It really is the next step for experienced racers that want to go fast.
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