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Old 01-13-2011, 03:12 PM   #376
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False again. All of the major manufacturers did contact us very quickly. They sent scope pics showing specific concerns and approached roar with a complaint. There is no doubt we are motivated to police ourselves and they would have gone public even without roar. It is not an issue you need to worry about or convince others to worry about.

The issue here is banning products simply because someone might cheat. Which is really sad. False statements such as this from people that are part of the decision process is not helping us come to the right answer.

Secondary is do we need a middle class. We feel strongly that we do and boosted setups are a pretty good answer for that next step.
Nobody went public at all. I was told to keep it quiet when i was told about it. Then ROAR did not say publicly why there was a problem. Then it has been characterized as a simple mistake. Can you take this opportunity to tell us exactly what happened? You are calling me a liar, so please let us know the real story as you see it. Can you see why there is apprehension in relation to this subject?
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:15 PM   #377
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Quoting it on the current page since this moves so fast.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:22 PM   #378
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Larry F-

I really like your motor suggestions, but the reason I suggested 17.5 is to incorporate the short course racing. Running a 21.5 with no boost with a short course simply is not an option. That is why I suggested a 17.5 instead...I would hate to see class specific rules, but if that is what it takes then so be it. The key is to find motor/esc combo's that improve racing at all levels. I do not always think ROAR is doing the best, but at least they are doing something. None of us really want to own making the decision, but it is better then 100 Type A personalities sitting in a room with soldering irons and heated LIPO batteries trying to agree on even the smallest of details.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #379
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I hate ROAR
Well, hate them you must, but ROAR does not have a competitior. So, ROAR we must work with...
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #380
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R.O.A.R. provides rules when it comes to their races.

NOT at the club level though track owners should do what is best for their business based on size of track, interest in TC, Pan car, VTA....that's the bottom line.

The majority of racers are grassroots unsponsored people looking to have fun and be competitive. Some aspire to travel and test their skills across the country. That is where the rules must be set and YES they should include several levels of TC and
1/12th scale.

Listen and read well R.O.A.R advisors and board members. I hope you decisions are wise and will include classes for all exsisting speedos and technologies.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:28 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
Larry F-

I really like your motor suggestions, but the reason I suggested 17.5 is to incorporate the short course racing. Running a 21.5 with no boost with a short course simply is not an option. That is why I suggested a 17.5 instead...I would hate to see class specific rules, but if that is what it takes then so be it. The key is to find motor/esc combo's that improve racing at all levels. I do not always think ROAR is doing the best, but at least they are doing something. None of us really want to own making the decision, but it is better then 100 Type A personalities sitting in a room with soldering irons and heated LIPO batteries trying to agree on even the smallest of details.
IMO the days of having 1 motor rule for all types of racing are over.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:36 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by starrx View Post
my class picks

21.5 tc non adj esc..(same as vta)
17.5 spec any esc with the spec profile
17.5 open ecs..(timing & boost)

my reasons..well vta went to the 25.5 motor & alot of ppl still have their 21.5 motor so they will still have a ues for them

17.5 spec keep it the way it is..so ppl wont have to buy new esc...i run a gtb in the spec class with tekins & lrps & mmp...& i dont see any differance in speed or punch...heck i just won the B MAIN down @ the gate last weekend @ the grandslam race(tc4 ,duo 2 ,& gtb)..so this rule dont need to change

17.5 open..well it fast enough for ppl thats looking for speed & alot of ppl could run both classes...(spec & open)..just my 2cents

good luck on what ever choice y'all make...im still a fan of this sport/hobby..& i will follow the rules to what ever class in choose to be in
+1 from a casual 25.5 VTA racer. I know I would love to throw my 21.5 in something with no boost and run it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:36 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Jaz406 View Post
R.O.A.R. provides rules when it comes to their races.

NOT at the club level though track owners should do what is best for their business based on size of track, interest in TC, Pan car, VTA....that's the bottom line.

The majority of racers are grassroots unsponsored people looking to have fun and be competitive. Some aspire to travel and test their skills across the country.
Ive said that before as well in our discussions. In the end ROAR provides the guidelines and rules for ROAR races. Race tracks and hobby shops should ALWAYS do what it takes to keep their doors open weather it be a variation of ROAR rules or something completely different but as long as they are able to stay in business that is the important part to them and all of us a racers.

But without ROAR's guidelines Who would know what was equal and where to start? If everyone woke up tomorrow and there was no ROAR and no one remembered anything about ROAR where would you be? And I know the smart ass answer from some people will be in a better place...

EA
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:42 PM   #384
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Why not use the I.F.M.A.R. rules?
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:44 PM   #385
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IFMAR is Mod only.. Correct ?
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:45 PM   #386
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Damn, I hate you......
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #387
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RobK, you have eluded to 208 issues multiple times with your "extra 9-10 degrees of timing" in your VTA thread as well as others. The unfortunate part is that you and whomever you received your information from are simply innacurate.

Competition in general opens to door to potential cheating. To disallow current products that can meet a standard is ignorant at best.

Sure looks like that simply "others" may benefit from this because they can't match our performance. SO, if they can't figure it out we should just make it illegal!? Yeah that's awesome.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:52 PM   #388
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Yes- I meant in the US.

And me do it? Ha. I havnt had time to race regularly in the last 5 years- let alone organize the USA into one single working racing entity.

And it is true= what works at one track, may not at another. Case in point, my local offroad track-- its like, they deliberately change things (from the racing norm) for "something to do"..

I vote Scotty Ernst.-- that guy always has his shit together. Always has a plan. Aside from his-- I have never been to a race that ran within seconds of its original plan== FOR A WEEK STRAIT.

It can be done.
This is funny, you guys want to jump on a "hire a guy to run it bandwagon" but you balk at paying volunteers to run ROAR, to the point that the racing public booted one ROAR pres out because of costs inccured to run the show.

This whole topic is getting too hard to follow, is it about TC classes, or off road classes, is about club level racing, regional level racing or National level racing........to me they are all so different, there is no way any of it can be grouped into one fixed class.

ROAR's ultimate mandate is to supply a rule structure to establish a National champ able to move to the next level and compete at the Worlds. Not sure how a racer running in novice 21.5 or 17.5 boosted or not, or 13.5 is going to fair at a all mod worlds race. Try and convince IFMAR that the worlds should go to 17.5 blinky or not.

The suggestion of classes in TC that Fairtrace made makes the most sense, mod being the one of prime importance, the others are merely support classes to fill the void during the day.

All other types of classes and structure should be made up of what works for your area, how does ROAR now what you're doing or what size your track is? They should only be concerned with supplying you with a rule structure to police the items you want to race with.

Oh and for those of you that want to get rid of ROAR and start your own organization that has the same power as ROAR, I believe that many years ago ROAR signed a document/contract (can't remember what it was called, it was about 30 years ago) that basically gave them the exclusive rights to their association with all those out of country organizations.

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Old 01-13-2011, 04:00 PM   #389
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this thread has given me a huge reason not to concentrate on work for the last couple of days...

what i want to know is what classes are going to be run so that I can figure out what I can/can't run come the paved nats in July
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:02 PM   #390
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RobK, you have eluded to 208 issues multiple times with your "extra 9-10 degrees of timing" in your VTA thread as well as others. The unfortunate part is that you and whomever you received your information from are simply innacurate.

Competition in general opens to door to potential cheating. To disallow current products that can meet a standard is ignorant at best.

Sure looks like that simply "others" may benefit from this because they can't match our performance. SO, if they can't figure it out we should just make it illegal!? Yeah that's awesome.
I will wait for Jim to comment as he said he will.
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