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Old 01-12-2011, 05:19 PM   #271
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so if people feel that having a class the newbies can compete in will rejuvinate rc racing, then create one. don't bastardize an existing class. add a class that has a very restricted definition for motor, speedo and battery. and then allow clubs to run the class if they see a need. and allow the host venue and ROAR to run the class if they see demand at the national level. classes like this should have a limit on the competitor as well. most "rookie" classes in other hobbies define the competators as one that has a limited experience. the other hobbies that I have competed in define newbies as less then 1 year of experience. back in the day, stock motors had a definition that included cost. i would think that a "new" rookie class could also work on that type of definition. that may include batts, motors, and speedos. in that way you restrict the competitors, the power sources and the cost.

maybe for once ROAR should look at creating something and getting ahead of the curve, then to be reactionary and being behind the curve.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:20 PM   #272
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True= but I dont think catering to them by capping the regular racer is the way to go. Beginner and grass-root (run what you brung') classes are.
Racing has to be made less complicated across the board. I am not saying that racing should be easy because it is not. But it should not be over-complicated.

Less complication can only help bring new people in and more than likely keep people in.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:24 PM   #273
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You didn't read, that is exactly the right place for them to race. Club level.

So why are we catering regional and national race rule sets to them, when most of the people that are in that category are not paying a membership or attending the ROAR regional or national events.
Are you a ROAR member?
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:34 PM   #274
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if your not careful your post count is gonna be over 10 in no time.

You coming to nats? I have a dinner and beer with your name on it.
Thanks for the offer, just might take you up on that. We are planning on it but are experiencing some technical difficulty. The class we run was not offered, 17.5X. Had a good time at the asphault nats with you, man that was a tough race. Reading your posts I can see we have a difference of opinion. LOL The schedule looks good for this year, so Im sure we'll cross paths sometime soon!
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:42 PM   #275
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We have VTA= and it seems, at least in my neck of the woods- to be a hit.

Allow that to be the slow-spec'd-begginner-esq class. It is also a place for "last years car" to not collect dust...

Leave the rubber touring classes in charge of their own fate.

One could also look at it like this-- more people run the stock classes. Even the "Pros" run the stock classes at the club level. Stock, at least in on-road it seems, is just as much a pro class as mod. Whether or not that is the way it should be, is a different story.

I feel- this was decided= again- about the same time touring car became a 500.00 every calender year investment. Every semi-regular TC racer out there drops this money on their car. The only people willing to do this have to be fairly serious or at least INVOLVED. SO- with that in mind, the stock touring racer- at least least one who races out side of their own city limits- feels they are somewhat of a Pro on their own. These guys, im sure- have no gripe with boost.

Yes- there are some guys out there who might not be as serious, as you are well aware. BUT- Not being as serious really makes the point that they dont need it anyway- more plausible. These are the guys who run the older car, the last esc, the oddball body. Theyre there for fun- and that is awesome.

I just got walked last weekend by the same guys I raced with for years. And yes, they have gotten better in my time off- sure. BUT, when you look at the lap times, you could see it wasnt my driving keeping me back. Rusty as I may have been. SO= what did I do? Sucked it up and bought an RS Pro LMAO. = cost of doing business- or better yet, no pun intended, the cost of going fast.

Joe beginner would not benefit from the pkg. He will just go "zero-to-the-scene-of-the-crash" a bit faster. My friend proved that- as he IS a beginner- driving my other buddies PHI with boost... man.. he twisted that car all up.. LMAO

Its funny- I have a lot of other hobbies.. guitars, real cars, movie props etc... RC makes them all seem insignificant money wise..
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:59 PM   #276
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hell just outlaw everything take every thing out atatch a string and run around and pull it if you are reading this you have computer making people buy roar spec equipment to race at there track events is total bs
sounds like someone is trying to make alittle side money spec eqipment
is a real touring cars stock hell no hey they use computers to tune them dont they
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:12 PM   #277
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Thanks for the offer, just might take you up on that. We are planning on it but are experiencing some technical difficulty. The class we run was not offered, 17.5X. Had a good time at the asphault nats with you, man that was a tough race. Reading your posts I can see we have a difference of opinion. LOL The schedule looks good for this year, so Im sure we'll cross paths sometime soon!
not really a difference. If they offered 21.5, boosted 17.5 and mod I would be cool with that to
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:29 PM   #278
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not really a difference. If they offered 21.5, boosted 17.5 and mod I would be cool with that to
You are right, with that line up there is no difference in opinion. Kind of funny how some say the software is too complicated, yet everytime I have a tech problem my kid fixes it. He is the next generation of racer and feeds on new technology.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #279
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not really a difference. If they offered 21.5, boosted 17.5 and mod I would be cool with that to
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You are right, with that line up there is no difference in opinion. Kind of funny how some say the software is too complicated, yet everytime I have a tech problem my kid fixes it. He is the next generation of racer and feeds on new technology.
best idea i seen . been thinking this all day
25.5boosted
21.5 boosted
17.5 boosted
modd
all these will be fasted than vta so it all comes down to size of the track
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #280
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I'd be curious to know just exactly how many local tracks across the country are actually ROAR affiliated in todays world. There was a time when most all tracks were, or wanted to be a ROAR track. It meant something back then, and most everybody followed the same basic set of rules. Today..... I don't even know of a track that proudly lists itself as a ROAR track, and just about every facility uses their own set of rules that differ from those that are used at another track just a few miles away.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM   #281
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Racing has to be made less complicated across the board. I am not saying that racing should be easy because it is not. But it should not be over-complicated.

Less complication can only help bring new people in and more than likely keep people in.
Rick, you are right, no argument that simpler can't be a bad thing. but like Jim Campbell pointed out, in recent hotwire releases there are can'ed profiles that a neophyte could select. how much more simple does it need to be? solderless connectors? velcro strap holddowns?

however, on the flip side, restricted or fixed timing means hotter motor temps and that batteries, rotor strength, hall sensor sensitivity and snakeoil become more critical.

so how long after these new rules come into effect that we see zapped batteries with higher voltage, select rotors for that 0.001% more torque, and higher or lower sensitivity hall sensor boards so we can 'legally' fiddle the effective timing?

i was a little intimidated at first by the last two years of hotwire updates, but it has been a great situation, no new equipment required with significant increases in performance, with lower motor temps, and less reliance on fresh battery performance. i am hard pressed to understand what the problem is. (unless i had been buying a new lrp or speedpassion or whatever every 6months to keep up...)
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:10 PM   #282
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@ Rick= thats just it-- racing seems EONS simpler these days.

Adding a little techie geeky computer stuff is a LOT better than say-- a cell of the month-- like it was from when ever until around what? 2008?

as long as the software is free- it is a blessing.

as long as the software is not hoarded by companies- or made Open source so that anyone can program and keep it secret-- it is so much better that brush combos, dead shorting or not dead shorting.. cutting coms to .273" or what ever was the money spot...
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:22 PM   #283
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I am a little confused by the comments about the complexity of the timing speedos keeping out the novice. Hasn't the novice always been intimidated by the tech in our hobby?

It wasn't THAT long ago I was dragging a com lathe, Turbo 30, and a Tire Lathe to club races. And yes, It burned me out. Last big push I did when NIMH were the thing, I dropped $250 on the cells of the month for a big 12th race. A month later they had dropped off over a half second. I was done with that game.

So I dropped off the on road scene and watched closely. Enter LIPO and Brushless. Now I was seeing guys play the one tooth from meltdown games. OK. At least the battery war wasn't as $$$ anymore.

OK. So I start asking about speedos and I find out some of the fast guys change em faster than XRAY chassis. HMMM. That sounded like a bad deal too.

Enter the Tekin. I was sold and re-entered racing in a big way. And it paid off.

So now everyone wants to go back to the games we were playing 3 years ago????????

I get the speed thing. I get the spec thing. But I also get that boosted touring and 13.5 boosted 12th is right about the limits of my skill and enough adrenaline to keep me interested.

So if it really means going back to a GTB and gearing to the moon, I don't see that as progress for guys like me.

Luckily we have a very wise track operator locally that limits FDR on the spec class here so that gearing up and burning up motors is not an issue.
However, it opens up some really easy cheats for the less than honorable too. But I have to assume It won't be like that at the big ROAR events?

Funny how the classes that go out of their way to be "fair" and slow seem to have the biggest problems with cheating.

Funny thing is, I just bought a Havoc in anticipation of more speedo limit classes. But guess what, its the Havoc SC. It has timing profiles. Guess that is a wasted purchase too?

I would applaud ROAR for setting up some true spec classes. I was really enjoying the USVTA class until it got too slow to hold my interest.

To get rid of the boosted tech just doesn't seem like a way of going forward or supporting the MANY racers that are perfectly happy with the equipment they already own.

So bring on a SPEC class but to eliminate a boosted class just doesn't smell right.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:28 PM   #284
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Mr HOWARD maybe you can clear some things up if i have them wrong you have a better feel on over seas racing then i do .
but if i read alot of the race reports right all the big races over seas run two classes for sedan and two for 1/12 stock (or spec) and open mod and from what i know the spec class is a spec speedo and motor and if you dont own them you can rent on for the event for a small fee . it seems like this is probally the best thing for racing i can no longer see the reason to have 4 differnt classes for the same class 17.5 open 17.5 spec 13.5 open and mod especally when the lap time for the two boosted classes are tenths off what a open mod class is ..

i would love to go back to the days on when a driver won a race not a lap top..

mark smyka
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:40 PM   #285
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Mr HOWARD maybe you can clear some things up if i have them wrong you have a better feel on over seas racing then i do .
but if i read alot of the race reports right all the big races over seas run two classes for sedan and two for 1/12 stock (or spec) and open mod and from what i know the spec class is a spec speedo and motor and if you dont own them you can rent on for the event for a small fee . it seems like this is probally the best thing for racing i can no longer see the reason to have 4 differnt classes for the same class 17.5 open 17.5 spec 13.5 open and mod especally when the lap time for the two boosted classes are tenths off what a open mod class is ..

i would love to go back to the days on when a driver won a race not a lap top..

mark smyka
If you are referring to the ETS series they actually have 3 classes. Hobby, pro stock and Modified. In the Stock classes they do use the same non boosted speedo. 13.5 motors in super stock and Hobby class. Hobby class is more of a Mini type class for the "beginners". It does work well for them but is it from the class or the person behind it all (Scotty)? Or is it that they dont have the Snowbirds, Cleveland, IIC, etc to choose from.

The European market and racers are so different than the US. Most tracks there are not permanent, they are larger and the ones that are permanent are gov owned and funded run by clubs. They truely seem to have it made in this department! LOL

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