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Old 01-12-2011, 07:04 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by avs View Post
that is foolishly irresponsible. you know darn well that fixed esc timing and 0 timing are exactly alike unless you have fixed endbell's and identical hardware.

NOTE that even 'spec hardware' is BS because the local cirtix class had problems with people cranking the timing on their speedpasssion cirtix 'sportsman' class fixed timing motors. marketing bs does not equate to equality or fairness.
cirtix motor was supposed to be fixxed timing motor, it even had little press points to lock it in, (or so i thought thats what they were), but some figured out how to crank the timing, is that Speedpassions fault, or is that OUR fault for being a bunch a lying ass cheaters always looking for an advantage and will do whatever it takes until we get caught. yea i said it outloud, so what.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:09 AM   #197
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I travel to alot of tracks...probably more than 99% of the people on this thread. I can tell you that I hear ALL THE TIME that people want timing in speedos to go away. We run no timing at our home track (CRC Raceway...yes that CRC) and I can tell you that the racing has never been better.

Whenever ROAR does anything, all the same people come out of the woodwork to whine, snivel, cry and bitch because they know more than anyone.

Dear ROAR:

My only complaint about the new rules is that you should have done it to pan cars too. I would rather see all the classes run the same type of speedos. Keep up the good work.

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Old 01-12-2011, 07:41 AM   #198
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My personal feeling is timing adjustment is great.

Still is a ton less then we ever had with brushed.. springs, com cutting, brush cutting, brush compound etc...

And light years ahead of the work we had with nimmhs... First run fastest, pack for each run, 24 hr sit time after cycle before running again, constantly matching and rematching...

today.. you just hook up change a few dots on the graph, or add a few numbers to a qty, work a rpm range... and drive.. Way fewer motors burned up today compared to fixed timing like the 08 novak race..... Were one tooth was worth a tenth, yet may cost you 85.00 - 300 at the till.

And to boot most tracks have a shop computer you can hook too.. Much like a track Tire Truer.. just another customer service item to take care of the customer(racer).

Also speedo cost is lower then it has ever been... GTX's use to cost 180 and no were did you have the hobbywing option for 39.99..

We are in such a much better spot today then we have ever been for ease and equality.. The next steps need to be very careful.. Some stability is a good thing.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:51 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
cirtix motor was supposed to be fixxed timing motor, it even had little press points to lock it in, (or so i thought thats what they were), but some figured out how to crank the timing, is that Speedpassions fault, or is that OUR fault for being a bunch a lying ass cheaters always looking for an advantage and will do whatever it takes until we get caught. yea i said it outloud, so what.
Per the Speed Passion rep the Cirtix motor was not intended to be a zero timing motor. See the post below from the Cirtix thread where he explains how to advance the timing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solara View Post
(1) the motor is not locked timing. Never intend to do it that way. We want the motor be servicable so it will last along time.

(2) Rotating the end cap to advance the timing is almost impossible to do. I recommand you to disassemble the end plate, rotate the end plate ring within (that silver ring inside, kinda like the good old brushed motor ring) couterclock wise by 2mm or so, then aim the end cap and screw in the 3 screws back

(3) Yes...warranty will be void immediately if motor was burnt because of the over timing...there are not timing lock on it so you can over timing the motor and ruin it. BE CAREFUL

(4) This motor is not intend to be ZERO TIMING....ZERO TIMING is for the ESC only, not the motor. However, if your club is promoting full ZERO TIMING (both ESC and MOTOR)...the V2 motor is very easy to spot if the user is advanced the timing or not. The marking "B" is at 12:00 position, perpendicularly poiniting toward the 3 wire tabs, that is = zero timing, no advance...if the "B" position is not at that position, the timing has been altered.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:52 AM   #200
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Mod is the only racers class, no cheaters just drivers. Spec racers will never be satisfied and always require rule change. Novice guys have to endure all the controversy. Why is it that this thread gets started after the 2011 carpet nats reveals their classes. No 17.5 ramping after many racers put their heart and soul into software with only two months to go. Rules should be seasonal giving racers and manufactures enough time to adjust. We have to find out like this and go through a meaningless debate further polarizing our community when the outcome has already been decided.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:56 AM   #201
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I think that ROAR should have a large number of classes defined with all the rules around each class and allow the clubs and races to determine which classes will be run. how does it hurt to just leave all the classes in place and then put fences around the classes. that is usually what the races and club do anyways.

As far as timing, no timing. I believe that timing evens out the batteries and motors that people run. when we went back to a spec class, the batts that are used and the motor that you choose become more critical. then you have a hand full of batts and a case full of motors in your pit bag to have the "right" combo. the addition of timing and control of how the timing is applied seamed to even out the motor\battery choice.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:18 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.B.R View Post
Mod is the only racers class, no cheaters just drivers. Spec racers will never be satisfied and always require rule change. Novice guys have to endure all the controversy. Why is it that this thread gets started after the 2011 carpet nats reveals their classes. No 17.5 ramping after many racers put their heart and soul into software with only two months to go. Rules should be seasonal giving racers and manufactures enough time to adjust. We have to find out like this and go through a meaningless debate further polarizing our community when the outcome has already been decided.
Sorry I guess I should have checked with you first before I posted this
I only found out about this change a few days ago from the RCTECH forum myself and went to the ROAR forum to find out that it is a done deal.Again Sorry guys I didn't mean to be a bitching, whining, know it all. Just never thought that rule change would happen without the members being made aware of it or at least being given a chance to vote on it. oh I am also a "cheater" because I bought something that ROAR had approved for racing.
But hey what do I know I just spend my money, pay my dues and play with toy cars. I don't count, my opinion is "bitching". I'm just a "sandbagger" that wants to beat the noobs at all costs.
I will vote with my feet and MY money you can bet on that.

Thanks ROAR and Mr. Pond
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:38 AM   #203
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Aaron,

Uhm No. Looking at on road and off road from the club racer level the new guys even though they have been racing for 6 months do not have a lap top and consider it crazy to have to bring one to the track.

Guys are upset over the cost of a new ESC (say even $125) and yet they are (were) OK with having to buy a $30 "cord/adapter" and a $300+ laptop where is the sense? OH yes of course, you already bought it....... But for the new guy who hasn't.... maybe, just maybe we can save them from incurring the expense until down the line as things progress or not to not have them needed and yes the argument can be made that "someone" is there to help or there is a loaner at the track. Of the six major tracks in my area.... no loaners. There is someone there though but not always.

We bring our equipment to help the new (and seasoned) racers with anything they need. Which reminds me of a little story about new guys and boosted ESC's.

Jeff was a brand new racer in SCT. He ran an RTR in the STOCK class which only allowed RTR motors. Along came a BL RTR and that changed the rules. You may now run 17.5 BL in the STOCK class. He still ran his brushed RTR and did well. One night a local brought out his BL (and boosted) SCT and cleaned house. It looked pretty fast for a 17.5 so he was called to the stand for a "legality check" he was indeed running a 17.5.... 99% of the racers were a bit upset yet asked him about his set up and gearing what motor he was running etc. The next week we got several calls on how they could be just as fast as this guy. Jeff being one of them. We explained what was going on and 75% of them said "If I have to go buy a new motor/ESC forget it we aren't going to race that class (that track etc) anymore" Jeff came to us and stated "I want the fastest set up to beat this guy" Jeff spent the near $300 to be competitive in the "STOCK" class. (1 out of roughly 8) The next race night Jeff went out and had a little difficulty driving his newly purchased speed but got used to it pretty quick.

Without making this a book, he crushed the competition including the original "boosted" guy who was now crying "cheater" because he had the same equipment as Jeff but wasn't nearly as quick (actually not by a lap) Jeff was also so confident in his speed that he ran the sportsman mod class and Q'd 2nd and won the A main.....

Guess what happened to the attendance and the Stock class..........

They changed the rules back and though one guy wasn't happy (Jeff) he understood because now he had more guys to race and have fun.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:44 AM   #204
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Do any of you know that you can set the Tekin without a computer?
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:45 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
Per the Speed Passion rep the Cirtix motor was not intended to be a zero timing motor. See the post below from the Cirtix thread where he explains how to advance the timing...
I wish I still had the official team email because it states different. I even emailed speedpassion to verify this info was it came up as a point of debate locally. That post was a coverup and some serious back pedaling when it was discovered that you could adjust the timing on their.locked motor.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:55 AM   #206
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Do any of you know that you can set the Tekin without a computer?
Yes and no.

Only the basic perimeters; Drag brake, brake strength, voltage cutoff, default throttle profiles, motor type, current limit &.... oh yes neutral width.


Non of the advanced settings such as boost, turbo, ramp rpm or ramp time etc can be done without a hot wire and computer.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:55 AM   #207
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Fixed timing is definately the way forward, I'd even like to see controlled gearing also....

This is, for sure, a positive step towards racing in the future


Well done ROAR :-)

Luke
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:55 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by hairy View Post
Do any of you know that you can set the Tekin without a computer?

You will need a computer if they come up with a new spec stock firmware. Plus you don't get the all the possible adjustments if you run boosted classes.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:57 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Racecrafter View Post
Aaron,

Uhm No. Looking at on road and off road from the club racer level the new guys even though they have been racing for 6 months do not have a lap top and consider it crazy to have to bring one to the track.

Guys are upset over the cost of a new ESC (say even $125) and yet they are (were) OK with having to buy a $30 "cord/adapter" and a $300+ laptop where is the sense? OH yes of course, you already bought it....... But for the new guy who hasn't.... maybe, just maybe we can save them from incurring the expense until down the line as things progress or not to not have them needed and yes the argument can be made that "someone" is there to help or there is a loaner at the track. Of the six major tracks in my area.... no loaners. There is someone there though but not always.

We bring our equipment to help the new (and seasoned) racers with anything they need. Which reminds me of a little story about new guys and boosted ESC's.

Jeff was a brand new racer in SCT. He ran an RTR in the STOCK class which only allowed RTR motors. Along came a BL RTR and that changed the rules. You may now run 17.5 BL in the STOCK class. He still ran his brushed RTR and did well. One night a local brought out his BL (and boosted) SCT and cleaned house. It looked pretty fast for a 17.5 so he was called to the stand for a "legality check" he was indeed running a 17.5.... 99% of the racers were a bit upset yet asked him about his set up and gearing what motor he was running etc. The next week we got several calls on how they could be just as fast as this guy. Jeff being one of them. We explained what was going on and 75% of them said "If I have to go buy a new motor/ESC forget it we aren't going to race that class (that track etc) anymore" Jeff came to us and stated "I want the fastest set up to beat this guy" Jeff spent the near $300 to be competitive in the "STOCK" class. (1 out of roughly 8) The next race night Jeff went out and had a little difficulty driving his newly purchased speed but got used to it pretty quick.

Without making this a book, he crushed the competition including the original "boosted" guy who was now crying "cheater" because he had the same equipment as Jeff but wasn't nearly as quick (actually not by a lap) Jeff was also so confident in his speed that he ran the sportsman mod class and Q'd 2nd and won the A main.....

Guess what happened to the attendance and the Stock class..........

They changed the rules back and though one guy wasn't happy (Jeff) he understood because now he had more guys to race and have fun.
Everything you posted is GREAT for club racing! But this is mainly going to affect the Nationals. Do you really want to turn the Nationals into the "US Backyard Basher Nationals"? Everyone knows that clubs and tracks will run what ever suits their racers best for weekly racing which is perfect! Thats what they should be doing.

Yang had a great idea as creating rules for several different classes for use through ROAR and allow each track (For nationals) to pick what best suits THEIR track size and region. Sounds pretty simple to me as long as we (ROAR) dont do anything stupid and create more new odd classes that are not needed. After all if you read the National guidelines now the only REQUIRED classes at the Nationals are Mod classes because of IFMAR tie ins for the Worlds.

And speaking of Off road wonder what they are going to think when they find out they will have to follow the same guidelines. Clearing a Double is going to be fun in 2wd buggy with a 21.5 and zero timing! LOL

EA
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:01 AM   #210
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When did Bernie Ecclestone start running Roar?
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