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Old 01-11-2011, 07:24 PM   #151
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o.k. I stand corrected,it is just that I never saw the comments as official statements from R.O.A.R., I guess I was wrong.
Not a problem. I am here just to learn and try to answer what questions I can at the moment but I dont have many answers! LOL

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Old 01-11-2011, 07:35 PM   #152
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i think some of the reason the iic, birds, indoor champs are so successful is because they are held pretty close to the same time of the year each year??? (hint)and allows people to make plans #1, and for the most part they run a roar rules and tweak it where they see fit. maybe the newer battery or motor or class to fit there needs and size track. sometimes i think we the racers are our own worst enemy. sometimes we might have to grin and bear it even though it might not be best for "me" but would be best for the "entire" racing community. technology has changed so much over the last couple of years and changes during the year and allows birds, iic to change on the fly were it takes roar into the new year??? i dont see why a 17.5 no boost (stock),
17.5 boosted and mod wouldn't fit most of all our needs in TC . . . you go to an event and pic 2 TC classes to run 17.5 stock and 17.5 boosted or 17.5 boosted and mod . . .what do i know though . . .
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:38 PM   #153
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Why is it Snowbirds and the IIC seem to get it right but ROAR as an organized organization doesn't see it? It seems to me that Snowbirds and IIC are 2 of the biggest on-road races of the year and I don't see any complaints about the classes that they offer. They seem to be able to cater to the new guy and the professional. Am I missing something?
I have not attended IIC or Snowbirds, but I think people hold ROAR to a different standard because ROAR charges an annual fee.

just a hunch
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:47 PM   #154
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I find many of the responses rather entertaining. You have half thinking this is good. Then the other half bad.
The bad are upset that they can't use their high tech equipment. This is no good, its going to hurt US, not the sport.
The good like it due to it will help the sport.

Forget the whining about we have to, they have to buy specific motors and esc's. Um everyone is already doing that. Nothing new will be going on here. But what will be new is the NEW guy buying their first RC car or truck will be able to get into racing without spending a tone of money to try and keep up with the Jones. The rules are wide enough that allow people that are willing to spend the money on a sport they are already committed to. Not someone that is looking to get into it.

Take me for instance. I am just getting into rc, I have a slash 4x4. Being it is 4x4 I donít have a choice but to run mod. Great. With my very novice driving skills this is not going to be an enjoyable. Being there is no beginner level class I will be forced to buy another vehicle that will fall into a spec or stock class where speeds will be slower until I can develop driving skills. So either way some people need to spend more money regardless. So thatís not going to be a total issue since over all spending will be less.

Why is there a need for rules like these? Because there are always sand baggers who are staying in stock or spec so they can finish well, rather then move along up the ranks, take a whooping and improve their driving or tuning. Which leads them and others to bend the rules, like run tuning on their esc for an advantage. Either to stay on top or to try and keep up. This is what leads the necessity of these rule changes. So or the criers upset since their loop hole is closed, or are they just a negative person in general?

I have read many times on this forum that classís and racing was being ruined by the races, and the rules being so open. Finally someone has listened, I see it as a good thing.
I am currently in a sport where new people joining hasnít been happening. This is bad. 50 participants are now 8-12. So for the sake of your sport, always accept rules or ideas that will bring in new blood. Otherwise it might just go by the wayside.
And I am sure your favorite local track will still be keeping things interesting for you so there really isnít that much to worry about.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:53 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by hammer down View Post
I find many of the responses rather entertaining. You have half thinking this is good. Then the other half bad.
The bad are upset that they can't use their high tech equipment. This is no good, its going to hurt US, not the sport.
The good like it due to it will help the sport.

Forget the whining about we have to, they have to buy specific motors and esc's. Um everyone is already doing that. Nothing new will be going on here. But what will be new is the NEW guy buying their first RC car or truck will be able to get into racing without spending a tone of money to try and keep up with the Jones. The rules are wide enough that allow people that are willing to spend the money on a sport they are already committed to. Not someone that is looking to get into it.

Take me for instance. I am just getting into rc, I have a slash 4x4. Being it is 4x4 I donít have a choice but to run mod. Great. With my very novice driving skills this is not going to be an enjoyable. Being there is no beginner level class I will be forced to buy another vehicle that will fall into a spec or stock class where speeds will be slower until I can develop driving skills. So either way some people need to spend more money regardless. So thatís not going to be a total issue since over all spending will be less.

Why is there a need for rules like these? Because there are always sand baggers who are staying in stock or spec so they can finish well, rather then move along up the ranks, take a whooping and improve their driving or tuning. Which leads them and others to bend the rules, like run tuning on their esc for an advantage. Either to stay on top or to try and keep up. This is what leads the necessity of these rule changes. So or the criers upset since their loop hole is closed, or are they just a negative person in general?

I have read many times on this forum that classís and racing was being ruined by the races, and the rules being so open. Finally someone has listened, I see it as a good thing.
I am currently in a sport where new people joining hasnít been happening. This is bad. 50 participants are now 8-12. So for the sake of your sport, always accept rules or ideas that will bring in new blood. Otherwise it might just go by the wayside.
And I am sure your favorite local track will still be keeping things interesting for you so there really isnít that much to worry about.
I think the majority of the people that are not in support of the change is not because Roar wants to eliminate dynamic timing esc's, but that the current crop of programmable esc's that all have "spec" software will be outlawed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:04 PM   #156
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I think the majority of the people that are not in support of the change is not because Roar wants to eliminate dynamic timing esc's, but that the current crop of programmable esc's that all have "spec" software will be outlawed.
Thats due to cheating and rule bending i am sure.

At the rate that people upgrade. a purchase of a new esc will blend right in.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:04 PM   #157
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welcome to the hobby... with that wouldn't it be nice if you could take that 4wd chassis and with some tweaks convert it to 2wd and run 2wd without spending more of your cash on an extra car, extra motor, extra tires, xtra esc, etc etc etc... and once you develope your skillz then just tweak it again and run mod.

well thats what's going on here. we have a piece of equipment that can be converted to run multiple classes, legally and fairly. why force a rule that would ban this? Thats the part that does not make sense.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:06 PM   #158
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I like this!

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Originally Posted by Chris08527 View Post
i think some of the reason the iic, birds, indoor champs are so successful is because they are held pretty close to the same time of the year each year??? (hint)and allows people to make plans #1, and for the most part they run a roar rules and tweak it where they see fit. maybe the newer battery or motor or class to fit there needs and size track. sometimes i think we the racers are our own worst enemy. sometimes we might have to grin and bear it even though it might not be best for "me" but would be best for the "entire" racing community. technology has changed so much over the last couple of years and changes during the year and allows birds, iic to change on the fly were it takes roar into the new year??? i dont see why a 17.5 no boost (stock),
17.5 boosted and mod wouldn't fit most of all our needs in TC . . . you go to an event and pic 2 TC classes to run 17.5 stock and 17.5 boosted or 17.5 boosted and mod . . .what do i know though . . .
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:08 PM   #159
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.....we have a piece of equipment that can be converted to run multiple classes, legally and fairly. why force a rule that would ban this? Thats the part that does not make sense.
agreed !

Especially in this economy I don't see the logic in forcing people to buy new hardware.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:09 PM   #160
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really doesn't seem to be that big a deal to me. of all the posts here only a couple of you guys go to roar events anyway, (I'm not talking about your local club race) Roar is trying to appeal to the sportsman and amature as a way to rebuild and increase turnout at regionals and nationals at least thats what i think is going on here, (cause you don't show up anyway) for carpet nats they have introduced a 21.5 DEMO class, DEMO class, DEMO class, did you get that part, its a DEMO class. IMO during the race and after the race they will be asking for the racers that run that class for thier opinions. I signed up for that class so i can give mine if asked for. 17.5 boosted sedan is stupid fast and in no way should be considered "stock" anymore. 17.5 non boosted is probably a good "stock" class, 21.5 unboosted is more then likey going to be a amature/sportsman, welcome to your first nationals class and may just increase turnout, which WE have been asking for forever.

part two, the banning of ESC's sounds crazy but let me ask you this, who has the better stock/spec/no timing esc/program. did you pick one? have you actually compared them? if you can tell me that brand x has a better spec program then brand Y then there is a problem. I can tell you I have tried the Speedpassion stock spec esc, and compared it to the Speedpassion Pro 2.0 with stock spec software and the Pro 2 is faster, I can also tell you when i compared Novaks spec program to Speedpassion in a 1s chassis there was a difference. Which tells me, if I want to go to a nationals and actually compete, I need to try a tekin and a lrp to find out for myself which is best which is only going to cost more money. whos saving money now, and playing the esc of the week program, what happens when tekin releases 214 stock profile, and speedpassion releases 023111 stock profile. (sp guys did you catch that). what better way to get away from all that non sense then to spec a esc. however, It may be on Roar to have these spec escs as hand outs for the stock class, to be returned after the race. that means roar would absorb the cost of the esc instead of the racers. I know hobbywing/speedpassion can produce and MAKE MONEY on a dirt cheap stock spec esc, not sure why the other boys can't too. maybe place a bid with roar to be the esc of the year, or hand out 2 or 3 year contracts so it makes sense to bid for the chance to be the offical esc of the Roar Nationals, there are so many ways to do this, and for it to work all this crazy talk here is mind boggling.

and for you guys saying that if you have to turn off boost your not going.... you weren't going anyway and we all know that. IMO

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Old 01-11-2011, 08:14 PM   #161
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oh BTW, there is no way in hell that your local Roar club is going to ban these "timing" esc's for club racing reguardless of what roar decides.

tru dat homie
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:14 PM   #162
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Thats due to cheating and rule bending i am sure.

At the rate that people upgrade. a purchase of a new esc will blend right in.
I like how you KNOW that it's cheating ,seeing as how you JUST got in to this hobby. HMMMMMM.
If it is NOT in the rules is it illegal?
You also state (with no credibility) that some stay in the class to finish well(hope I quoted that correctly),well then please tell me the point of racing if it is not to finish well?
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:15 PM   #163
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Just quit ROAR, they can't tell you what to do without your money.
...

winner gets a trophy and maybe a face on the magazines.

no they cant...unless if youre running at some so called sponsored event trying to promote and sell their product.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:16 PM   #164
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the simplest solution is often the best solution to a problem. It would seem to me that having two classes for each type of car should be enough. I propose that the slower class should be done with an eye towards keeping costs under control, keeping things simple for the racer, and running manageable speeds for those who are new to the game, limited in their skills & experience, or limited in the amount of time that they have available to devote to their RC racing program. The current blinky speedos (also allowing the simple cheap ones) would seem a decent way to limit performance (and cost) for those who prefer to run a budget conscious limited speed class. For those who want to go faster, who are looking for more intense competition, or who want to explore the limits of available technology, why can't all of those guys just run mod? (either with the hottest motor they can handle, the fanciest speedo they can bring to the table, or a combination of both). Seems like it's the superstock class in the middle where things have tended to get complicated. It's that arena where the desire for extra power is always going to be an endless quest that has proven to be almost impossible to manage in the age of brushless motors and programmable speedos. So why not just go with the two classes that are easy to manage. Blinky stock (where basic cheap speedos can also be run) for the slower limited class, and the fast class where guys can run whatever they can handle. These top and bottom classes seem very easy to make rules for and to manage. It's that middle class (aka boosted stock or super stock) where it's virtually impossible to keep the playing field level. That also seems to be the arena that generates most of the controversy. So why not toss out the problematic middle ground and run either slow cars with strict limits that are easy to police or fast cars without limits where there's no need for police at all? Seems simple enough, don't you think?
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:18 PM   #165
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You also state (with no credibility) that some stay in the class to finish well(hope I quoted that correctly),well then please tell me the point of racing if it is not to finish well?
aaah, to have fun, to meet and hang out with new people, aahh, to have stories to tell and share, to smile until your face hurts, to get pissed off, to eat crappy food, to check out that guys smoking hot GF or Wife. I can think of all sorts for reasons besides finishing well to go to a race. finishing well is all good, but I have gone to the IIC and Reedy KNOWING at the time I was sgning up and booking plane tickets and hotel rooms that I would be the C or lower main.
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