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Old 02-28-2007, 09:30 AM   #10246
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Syndr0me, post or PM me your setup. My car usually works better for club racing with larger tires (56.5-57 mm).
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:34 AM   #10247
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Doesn't the width change depending on tire manufacturer? BSR - JACO - PARMA ........
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:04 AM   #10248
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I think they are talking about the diameter of the wheel and not the width.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:07 AM   #10249
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Wow, thanks for all the responses, I appreciate it. It does feel like the car is generating too much side bite, but it's hard to say for certain. Here's the setup I'm running currently:

Competition Spec Chassis 2.4MM (with stiffening plate)
Competition Spec Top Deck (thick, 4MM I think)
60wt/1.3/30lb. front, 40wt/1.3/22lb. rear
Standard roll center blocks down all the way around
6d caster
2d camber (front/rear)
Front camber links up/out, rear camber links down/out
Front shocks: 3rd hole in on tower (need the throw for enough steering) all the way out on arms
Rear Shocks: 2nd hole in on tower, second hole on new arms (like the normal old extensions)
190MM all the way around w/standard hexes, narrow hubs in rear
1d rear toe in, 1d front toe out
5MM ride height, 2MM up

I alternate between Parma cyan/magenta and GQ tan/red+tan and can't really tell much difference between them. That is, I don't have to change the setup much, they seem to be pretty close. The problem happens with both brands of tires.

I know the setup is a little goofy for carpet, and I'm sure there's more I could do to it, but it's definitely been the best I've found in two years with the RDX. It's extremely smooth, which seems to suit me better, I'm not good enough to wheel a twitchy car yet.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:17 AM   #10250
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im not a specialist but just a thing ill chnage is maybe the standard roll center to the lower roll center whit foam tires !! all the setup on corallyusa whit foam use the low roll center!!

peace
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:24 AM   #10251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T1Raycer
im not a specialist but just a thing ill chnage is maybe the standard roll center to the lower roll center whit foam tires !! all the setup on corallyusa whit foam use the low roll center!!

peace
I tried them initially, but with the thinner chassis (I know it's not ideal for foam/carpet) it seemed too low. The car felt really, really stuck.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:54 PM   #10252
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I picked up the competition spec chassis thinking I'd use it for some rubber tire. I had to quit using the 4MM since it made the fit with the Carbon LiPo too tight, and somehow warped the 2.9 chassis terribly. I threw the CSpec on there in a bind, and actually really like it. The car feels a lot less twitchy than it did before. As for the new top deck, I just use it because the front tires wear even when I do, and it gives a lot more room for electronics.

So, do you guys setup your cars so they have all on-power steering? One thing I noticed when watching Brad is that it never looks like he's off-power, only on and maybe neutral. He asked me to drive his car, which was nearly impossible because the thing would take turns at full speed, and I wasn't used to how hard and fast it turned in. I can see how that would be quick, but it would take some getting used to. Is that just a stock thing, since the cars aren't as fast? Mod and 19T cars look like maybe they transfer weight more than stock cars that seem to turn on a dime at full speed and not break traction.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:04 PM   #10253
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Syndr0me, the objective in stock racing is always to get the car to turn without letting off or just barely letting off around the whole circuit. Mod and 19t it's different; you have to setup the car to get into the corner really hard (rotating without violently breaking traction) while letting off and then be able to get back on the gas as soon as possible without pushing out further than desired.

Another thing I know from racing with Brad for a long time, is that he does like the car to turn-in pretty hard. I like my car a bit smoother than he does, which is why you probably liked my Novak setup, Syndr0me. But in essence, my car still does very similar things to Brad's and any other fast stock car: carries lots of corner speed and has enough on-power steering so I can drive it around the track barely lifting.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:15 PM   #10254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy
Syndr0me, the objective in stock racing is always to get the car to turn without letting off or just barely letting off around the whole circuit. Mod and 19t it's different; you have to setup the car to get into the corner really hard (rotating without violently breaking traction) while letting off and then be able to get back on the gas as soon as possible without pushing out further than desired.

Another thing I know from racing with Brad for a long time, is that he does like the car to turn-in pretty hard. I like my car a bit smoother than he does, which is why you probably liked my Novak setup, Syndr0me. But in essence, my car still does very similar things to Brad's and any other fast stock car: carries lots of corner speed and has enough on-power steering so I can drive it around the track barely lifting.
I appreciate the feedback Brian, thank you. Your Novak setup has always been the smoothest I've used, and I think kind of trained me to appreciate smooth, flowing cars. The twitchy ones cause me fits, though maybe that's faster if you're good with it, I'm really not sure.

So in stock, in an ideal world, would you drive the entire track without lifting? I mean, when you're working on a setup, is that that the goal? Obviously it depends on layout somewhat, but at the end of a long straight, for example, when you're turning in, do you attempt to make that transition without lifting at all? The way I'm doing things now, I have to lift a little bit to get weight transfered to the front and get the steering I need, but maybe I should be rethinking my setup.

I get the impression this kind of driving is mainly because of foam tires. Are rubber guys having to drive and use the throttle more than the foam guys? I apologize if these are dumb questions, but in all the banter you see on the Internet and hear at the track, you really don't hear this particular topic discussed much at all.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:23 PM   #10255
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Yes, that is the goal. At the Novak this year (and last year for that matter), there was a 180* hairpin at the end of the sweeper/straight. I could drive an ideal line through there barely lifting, 3/4 throttle at the very least.

This is more of a foam tire thing. I don't setup the car exactly like that for rubber. You do need more weight transfer to get grip out of rubber tires. Although, if you can get the car to have enough overall traction to do that w/o scrubbing speed in rubber tire...it will be simply amazing.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:40 PM   #10256
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Huh, cool. I guess I need to go forward with a different mindset then, and try to maximize on-power steering, even if it comes at the expense of off-power. I appreciate the insight, thanks!
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:09 PM   #10257
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The only time you really sacrifice (noticeable) off-power steering to gain on-power steering is when you make macro changes. Some of these are roll center changes at the hinge pin, spring rates, and significant piston changes or oil changes. Small amounts of camber added/taken away and small roll center (at the tower/hub) changes generally increase/decrease the overall steering feel through the whole corner, at least in stock. This is usually because of the small amount of weight transfer compared with higher HP loads. Small is all relative. It depends on the driver, as well. The best of drivers can feel more micro changes than the average decent driver. And theoretically, yes, you do increase/decrease the amount of load (and impulse) to the tire no matter how small the change...the difference is in what is felt on the track and seen in lap times.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:07 AM   #10258
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Will either, or both of you be heading to the Nats next week?
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:38 PM   #10259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdude
Doesn't the width change depending on tire manufacturer? BSR - JACO - PARMA ........
Yes, it does. I mentioned that in my previous post.

I am not sure which company BSR is buying rims from though. I know JACO and Parma are offset a bit, other than that I don't know.

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Old 03-01-2007, 09:39 PM   #10260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T1Raycer
im not a specialist but just a thing ill chnage is maybe the standard roll center to the lower roll center whit foam tires !! all the setup on corallyusa whit foam use the low roll center!!

peace
Yes, the setups use low roll blocks but it varies with traction levels.

Jeff
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