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Old 07-27-2004, 11:44 AM   #1
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Default in-board or out-board Toe-in

Hello guys,

could someone explain me the difference between in and out-board toe-in??

which effects does it make on the handling of the car
when should I prefer to use in or out-board toe-in?

Thanks for the answers
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Old 07-27-2004, 01:11 PM   #2
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Do you just mean "toe-in" and "toe-out" ??
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Old 07-27-2004, 01:29 PM   #3
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Hi, no what I want to know concerns the back of the car:

It is sometimes possible to adjust rear toe-in by adding Toe-in shims giving some angle to the arms OR to use uprights that will give a standard setting of 2 degree toe-in without having to use toe-in spacers.

I would like to know which is best to use, what effect on the handling of the car.

By the way I'm running a 1/10th scale touring car.

And can we mix both of them?

Thanks
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Old 07-27-2004, 01:36 PM   #4
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Benoitrdv, in board works the same as toe out, but the difference
it only works on the XRay that I know of what inboard is on the XRay, the rear to get toe in you would put a shims on the back of the pivot holders but on the front you would put the shims on the
front of the pivot holders so you could get the same effect as the toe-in but without moving the tyres pointing out, and out board is the visa versa I hope this will help you.
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Old 07-27-2004, 02:36 PM   #5
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I think I understand your question. Hopefully, this diagram helps explain the difference. When using inboard toe, one thing that happens is that your wheelbase changes since the whole a-arm sweeps forward. I don't know if the a-arms being swept forward has any affect on handling, but at the very least, you need to compensate approximately 1mm of wheel base for every degree of toe.
When using hub carriers with toe built in, the wheelbase is pretty much unaffected.
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Old 07-27-2004, 03:18 PM   #6
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The Schumacher Mission also had the choise between in- and out-board toe. (Dont know about MI2). If I remember correctly, then according to Schumacher in-board toe is good on slippery surfaces.
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Old 07-27-2004, 05:39 PM   #7
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The TRF415 also has the option of inboard and outboard toe, changed with the option of different suspension mount blocks, and different rear hubs. The kit actually comes with the required blocks to have 0.5deg increases up to 4 degrees.

You can se different rear hubs as well to acheive toe. And the kit also has the provision to change the same on the front, as I currently have the car set with -1deg inboard front toe (0deg in total)

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Old 07-27-2004, 06:47 PM   #8
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In board toe in in the rear has a geometrical function similar to anti squat but without the reduction in rear traction entering corners that happens with anti squat.

In board toe out in the front has a geometrical function similar to anti dive but without the reduction in front traction entering corners that happens with anti dive.

Out board toe in seems to give the stability you want from to in but also seems to allow the car to have more corner speed due to increased rear traction. Those of you who were around when the Yok MR-4TC came out remember that it had 0 deg inboard toe in the rear and 1 deg of toe in at the rear hubs. This car was awesome when it came out and its descendants the MR-4Pro and Worlds cars were even better with 2 deg outboard toe.

Losi came out with the XXXS and Schumacher came out with the Mission and a year later the Mi2. All of these cars allow you to adjust inboard toe out in the front (either 0 to 2 deg) and inboard or outboard toe in in the rear (XXXS and Mission 0 or 2 deg, Mi2 1.5 or 3 deg). Out board toe is adjusted with optional rear hub carriers in .5 deg increments.

FYI...this is why you see AE factory drivers with XXXS rear hubs on their cars at certain tracks.
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Old 07-28-2004, 06:55 AM   #9
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It's a wonder AE hasn't come out with toe-in hubs for outboard toe with how many people are using those Losi hubs. I prefer it just to keep a longer wheelbase for more stability on the large, sweeping tracks you usually see.
I hadn't considered an effect on anti-squat with a forward swept angle in the a-arm. I'm not sure I understand it. Could you elaborate, Adrian?
The way I figure it, the vertical component of the force vector during acceleration is better utilized by directing some of the movement away from the horizontal plane and reducing the amount of that vertical force that is dampened by the suspension.
Inboard toe in still moves completely in a horizontal plane (ignoring anti-squat), simply shifting the wheel forward a few degrees.
What are the kinematics that increase rear traction?
Just trying to make sure I understand this.
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Old 07-28-2004, 10:17 AM   #10
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Thanks guys for all your answers.

Just looking for my translator to be sure I understood all the things you said! ;-)
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Old 07-28-2004, 04:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by benoitrdv
Thanks guys for all your answers.

Just looking for my translator to be sure I understood all the things you said! ;-)
Hvis du gerne vil have det på dansk, vil jeg gerne forsøge at hjælpe
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