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Old 11-21-2010, 01:51 PM   #76
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OK, I see, thanks.

Mantisworx, I am not an engineer, of course, but I have seen and owned enough link cars to know that empirically it works perfectly...like the F109.

I think the only reason your car can make it around the track is because of the flex and slop of your links, to a larger extent than for the other link cars.

Excuse my less than average english, it's not my mother tongue.

Good luck.
Why do you think that my chassis has more slop than the 109, from looking at a picture? Here is a news flash.......i am using the same links as the 109 So where is this extra slop that you keep talking about ?with my links angled it actually cuts the slack down in a lateral movement, but I'm sure you already knew that?as I just said look how much slop the front of your car has right now But that does not matter?? Please get your facts right,don't assume anything unless you have it in your hands.

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Old 11-21-2010, 02:05 PM   #77
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Dude, no one is saying it has more slop or that the slop is bad, they are saying that the only reason it works is because of the slop.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:56 PM   #78
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Dude, no one is saying it has more slop or that the slop is bad, they are saying that the only reason it works is because of the slop.

I think the only reason your car can make it around the track is because of the flex and slop of your links, to a larger extent than for the other link cars.


Really? what does this mean then? "to a larger extent than other link cars" that says that the mantisworx chassis has more slop than other link cars.

have you read the entire thread, it has been stated several times that my design has too much slop.

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Old 11-21-2010, 03:03 PM   #79
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If your design offers an improvement in traction with mod motors will there be a 1/12th chassis offered?
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:11 PM   #80
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If your design offers an improvement in traction with mod motors will there be a 1/12th chassis offered?

i havent really thought about it, 12th scale racing is an even harder group to break into but with that being said at least for me personally i will make a chassis at least to try out with the local group.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:17 PM   #81
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MantisWorx do yourself a favor and don't let all these "armchair experts" make you upset, it's not worth it. Likely most of them have never designed and built their own rc car, yet they are quick to put down your ideas; and if you dare to get upset with their "negativity" and voice it, you are then made to look like a "hothead". Don't be goaded into it by them, they won't admit they could be wrong; they'll make you look like the bad guy. The best defense is to finish the car(s) and then race them!

When the Brabham and then the Lotus teams first came to Indy in the early '60s, the established American teams did not take them seriously and were convinced that their little rear engined cars wouldn't work at the Speedway and would be soundly trounced by their front engined Offy roadsters, and look who ended up having the last laugh!

Just go ahead and build your current car and then later your full independent suspension car and hopefully we at Enforcer RC will get ours done at some point, and then both will have a chance to prove our points of view. I refuse to be drawn in and try to explain the whole concept to people with narrow minds.

Now watch as I get "flamed" for being "politically incorrect" and calling them negative and narrow-minded.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:25 PM   #82
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yea, i know i have been biting my tongue the whole time until today when once again i was told that it was a bad design and was sloppy and i know you as a machinst hate the word slop! at any rate you are right, i am done, see you lovers (and haters) at the track soon. i will only answer positive questions and update the performance and status of the release dates from now on.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:31 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
I think the only reason your car can make it around the track is because of the flex and slop of your links, to a larger extent than for the other link cars.


Really? what does this mean then? "to a larger extent than other link cars" that says that the mantisworx chassis has more slop than other link cars.

have you read the entire thread, it has been stated several times that my design has too much slop.
Yes I have and you're misreading their posts. Here is what they mean:

If it were possible to put links on it with ZERO slop and ZERO deflection (but still free moving), the rear pod would not move at all. Of course, this is impossible but it's the point they are all trying to make. On other link cars, even with these impossible zero slop links, the pod would still move freely as long as everything is properly aligned.
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Old 11-21-2010, 04:28 PM   #84
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That is a bullsh*t post. IF there was ZERO SLOP, which is IMPOSSIBLE....... Please, give me a break. That is the lamest arguement I have read on this forum in 3 years regarding a cars design.
F**k the PC stuff guys, Mantis, keep doing what you do. To the others, if you don't know what the hell you are talking about, drop it. Forget hypothetical arguements, forget dissing this guys design, it's all pointless.
I guess your mothers never taught you that if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything at all. Mine did, but she also taught me to speak out if something wasn't right, and 1/2 of this thread isn't.
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Old 11-21-2010, 04:37 PM   #85
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Well said, JR007

That is why I'm no longer going to discuss the radical direct drive independent suspension F1 we at Enforcer are working on. Too much negativity on this thread, all most of them want to do is diss MantisWorx ideas and I know they will do the same to me, so I'll wait till our car is finally finished(which my be awhile as my partner is very ill and he is key to the whole thing). But hopefully sometime during the coming year we will be ready.

In the meantime I'm looking forward to seeing MantisWorx car when it's finished; I'm sure it will be worth it. After that, I want to see him build the independent suspension F1 car next; that's the one I really want to see the most!!
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:18 PM   #86
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Thanx guys, i was beginning to think i was crazy about some of this! on a good note testing went well yesterday i managed to TQ the race, set quickest time and finished one lap (maybe two) in front of second place! i also managed to got my avg time within 2 tenths of my quick time. the only issue i am having now is high speed push, it is ridiculous. on a good note the Exotec car was having the same problem and was actually worse than me but i really feel that with some better steering i can get a half a second quicker, its that bad. i blame it on not having more than 1* of camber and non adjustable castor. so i think that i am going to come up with some sort of adjustable setup that will come with the chassis kit so this wont be an issue with racers.out of curiosity are you guys able to actually use the ride,pits,tamiya fronts without major push? it seems to me that a compound that is as soft as the rears would work perfectly but for some reason our choices in front tires are always harder than the rear.

i really enjoyed racing F1 yesterday, not only do you have to drive the car to keep it on track you also have to plan your passes, the crowd loved it!
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:40 PM   #87
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Thanx guys, i was beginning to think i was crazy about some of this! on a good note testing went well yesterday i managed to TQ the race, set quickest time and finished one lap (maybe two) in front of second place! i also managed to got my avg time within 2 tenths of my quick time. the only issue i am having now is high speed push, it is ridiculous. on a good note the Exotec car was having the same problem and was actually worse than me but i really feel that with some better steering i can get a half a second quicker, its that bad. i blame it on not having more than 1* of camber and non adjustable castor. so i think that i am going to come up with some sort of adjustable setup that will come with the chassis kit so this wont be an issue with racers.out of curiosity are you guys able to actually use the ride,pits,tamiya fronts without major push? it seems to me that a compound that is as soft as the rears would work perfectly but for some reason our choices in front tires are always harder than the rear.

i really enjoyed racing F1 yesterday, not only do you have to drive the car to keep it on track you also have to plan your passes, the crowd loved it!
With Tamiya rubbers, slight push but sometimes goes away if toe-out about 0.5 deg in front. Usually i run 0deg front, if not 0.5 deg toe in.

I not engineer, but F1 kits are somehow built in a way that harder fronts are always used whether if its foams or rubber, even when i run the F104 with 2.5* deg in front.

When I try same compound front and rear, the car has lots of steering but hard to plant the power down even with a hard front spring in front.
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Old 11-21-2010, 06:25 PM   #88
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That is a bullsh*t post. IF there was ZERO SLOP, which is IMPOSSIBLE....... Please, give me a break. That is the lamest arguement I have read on this forum in 3 years regarding a cars design.
Why? What is not true about my statement? I well know it's impossible as I stated that in my post. I was merely trying to point out that he was being defensive for the wrong reason. NO ONE has EVER said his design has too much slop. They were saying that it only worked BECAUSE of slop. He is certainly entitled to be defensive about his design as he has been slammed by a few people on here pretty hard. But he keeps arguing the wrong point.
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Old 11-21-2010, 06:26 PM   #89
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man, i am running 2* toe out 30g of weight over the front and the battery moved all the way up front!! i think that i can get the power down with no problem, what are the softest know front tires for f1?
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Old 11-21-2010, 06:32 PM   #90
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Enforcerman, I know your partner has a few good days to the many not so good. But you know he will not quit as long as he has a breath left in him. So hang in there.

Mantisworx, keep swinging that hammer. Put the car out there to be seen. Find a driver if you have to and get him to a race or two and support him in the pits. I love to see the naysayers jaws drop when the idea works. You don't even have to win. Remember, if you race against 5 and win that's cool. But if you race 20 and get 5th that's 15 people you put the smack on.
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