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Old 11-12-2010, 12:24 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by NWlosiracer View Post
So confusing, so here people are attempting to research and READ, yet when we ask a question, we are told to just buy a red dot.

And while I did ask some questions. That's again what this site is for.

Personally, I think your jigs are used to illegally alter the motor. No jig for a motor would take 3 tries to make for something legal. If you claim it's a break in jig, I am going to laugh. You could make one of those with commercially available stuff for less than $50.

A linear power supply for a dyno? Really? Sure you are not trying to run a constant current through the windings?
Should have explained about the jigs, the first two were not precise enough and let things flop around. Got the third one close enough to do what I wanted and because a machinist friend built it. I'm replying here cause I mentioned trying 3 times to build a motor jig so figured I was the one you were pissed at and the one who was illegally altering the motors.

I'm sorry that you took the advice I gave you, with good intentions by the way, so badly. I was basing it on economics and was merely trying to point out the costs involved in doing them yourself. I did it cause Doc wasn't selling motors then and the only way to get a really fast motor was to do it myself. Turned into an enjoyable hobby within a hobby, but very expensive.
I don't think I'd do it now, since I can just buy one. If you still want to do this you at least have a list of the minimum equipment you will need. The Fantom dyno is my third and my present power supply is my second.

At one point in "tuning" a motor, I put a heavy load on the power supply. That's the reason for the linear PS instead of a switching PS and also the reason I'm on my second power supply.

When Doc said research and read, I'm sure he did not mean on r/c tech. What you're looking for won't be found here. Try going to a website "How Stuff Works" and look up electric motors and magnets and magnetism. Basic, but a start. Believe it or not, but wikipedia had some usefull stuff.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:28 AM   #47
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I remember my friend who was spec racing with handout chameleons (19T)
My friend won, apparently he is a good friend of our LHS and race organizer,
he was secretly given a faster motor so he could win. My friend was a newbie and had lots of crashes during that race but eventually won.

Induced cheating.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:47 AM   #48
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Reading this just made me sick. I don't discount the patience and talent it takes to make the motors go, but this seems insane in the light of sub $100 BL spec esc motor combos available.
What makes me even sicker is the "it isn't cheating if you don't get caught" attitude of the silvercan tuners...

This is a hobby... those of us that race with a clear conscience know that cheating is cheating, even if the scrutineers don't have the tools to find out...
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:54 AM   #49
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How about an open class that allows cheating?
First rule is if you dont cheat, you are disqualified!
Sorry.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:12 AM   #50
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Reading this just made me sick. I don't discount the patience and talent it takes to make the motors go, but this seems insane in the light of sub $100 BL spec esc motor combos available.
Bingo, There's the easy solution to this, Either the Venom or Hobbywing brushless system as spec and done...
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:26 AM   #51
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...the best way to keep a level playing field is handout silver cans. engrave each can with a number. randomily pull a motor from a box,write down what each racers motor number...
Yes, if your club's intention is to have a 'spec' series, then this is the way to go. Red Dot actually sponsors a TT01 class like this at The Coliseum in Frederick, MD. It's hugely popular, often the largest class in the winter time, and has not only taught a whole new generation of racers to drive, it's also been fun for more experienced drivers who want to re-learn the basics of good driving.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:44 AM   #52
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Perrotto- Best way to break in a silver can is to run it in a motor jig at 4 volts using a slave motor. Oil the bushings, use clear comm drops every 12 hours on the burshes, and stop when the brishes are straight up and down on the comm- that will take several days. You can run it in reverse for a few hours if you want to pick up a few hundred RPM at the expense of torque (eg for F1). That's really it. Some motors will wind up in the low 13's, others in the 12's.
Thank you RCcardr! I remember from one of your previous posts you said to use 0w Mobil 1 synthetic oil to lube your bearings and not to use the water dip method because of comm arcing. What is the spec (turns/endbell) of your slave motor?


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Magnet zapping to advance timing or 10amp load motor breakin (to fuse the windings) will help get the rpms up. Some also break the washers at the ends of the armature.
@RCcartips can you explain the technique and theory behind the 10 amp load?


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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
At one point in "tuning" a motor, I put a heavy load on the power supply. That's the reason for the linear PS instead of a switching PS and also the reason I'm on my second power supply.
@Granpa I understand your reluctance toward sharing your knowledge. If possible could you explain what and why you do this? If you do not want to could you at least tell us if your techniques and reasons are similar to the 10amp load that RCcartips was referring to?

Last edited by 92gsr; 11-12-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:59 AM   #53
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Bingo, There's the easy solution to this, Either the Venom or Hobbywing brushless system as spec and done...
Yes, that is a great spec system. We use it in Norway at our local track.
We used ours for over 2 years and none has failed yet, racing is close. No cheats and great fun...
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:54 AM   #54
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What is the spec (turns/endbell) of your slave motor?
Just a plain old, worn out silver can. Remember to run the slave motor backwards so that the driven motor goes in the proper direction for break-in.

But you knew that.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:26 PM   #55
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@Granpa I understand your reluctance toward sharing your knowledge. If possible could you explain what and why you do this? If you do not want to could you at least tell us if your techniques and reasons are similar to the 10amp load that RCcartips was referring to?
I have no idea what he was talking about and could only guess or theorize and that wouldn't be fair to him. The breaking of the washer thing must be a reference to the "illegal" practice of "cranking" the comm. This of course is to get more advance. Someone was telling me that the comms are done now in a way that you can't "crank" them anymore. Never done it so can't really comment other than to say it was a pretty good motor guy.

I'm sorry, but I do share my knowledge. I won't post step by step instructions, drawings, schematics but ----whatever. Just sent a PM to a guy in Australia who told me what he was doing. We discussed a couple of modifications he might make. I don't do step by steps in PMs either. Look at how many posts you see about how motor tuners are cheating. I had one guy tell me directly I was cheating. They don't know what I'm doing, but whatever it is must be cheating.

Hell, just because they can't figure out how to build a faster motor w/out cheating, doesn't mean that some guys can't. We're not all lazy or mentally challenged. I had to earn my MMT (master motor tuner) degree and so must everyone else. No one's just handing it to you. That doesn't mean that I won't nudge you in the right direction like I did for my Australian friend, but he'd already paid his dues.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
I have no idea what he was talking about and could only guess or theorize and that wouldn't be fair to him. The breaking of the washer thing must be a reference to the "illegal" practice of "cranking" the comm. This of course is to get more advance. Someone was telling me that the comms are done now in a way that you can't "crank" them anymore. Never done it so can't really comment other than to say it was a pretty good motor guy.

I'm sorry, but I do share my knowledge. I won't post step by step instructions, drawings, schematics but ----whatever. Just sent a PM to a guy in Australia who told me what he was doing. We discussed a couple of modifications he might make. I don't do step by steps in PMs either. Look at how many posts you see about how motor tuners are cheating. I had one guy tell me directly I was cheating. They don't know what I'm doing, but whatever it is must be cheating.

Hell, just because they can't figure out how to build a faster motor w/out cheating, doesn't mean that some guys can't. We're not all lazy or mentally challenged. I had to earn my MMT (master motor tuner) degree and so must everyone else. No one's just handing it to you. That doesn't mean that I won't nudge you in the right direction like I did for my Australian friend, but he'd already paid his dues.
Granpa... i sent you a PM. package will go out today. i was out of town the past week. thanks!

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Old 11-12-2010, 02:59 PM   #57
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I had to earn my MMT (master motor tuner) degree and so must everyone else. No one's just handing it to you.
But that goes against everything the xbox generation expects...........that will just never work. Next you'll expect them to accept the fact that not everyone wins.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:31 PM   #58
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant how and why do you put a large load on your motors during break in. Also despite my low post count I have been in the hobby since 1988 and I have been into silvercan tuning since 05. I have been reading the massive silvercan post for years now even though I don't comment much.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:49 PM   #59
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant how and why do you put a large load on your motors during break in. Also despite my low post count I have been in the hobby since 1988 and I have been into silvercan tuning since 05. I have been reading the massive silvercan post for years now even though I don't comment much.
Also sorry that you misunderstood. The huge amp spike isn't during break in. I can't figure why it happens, but it does and it's a mystery to me. My break in method takes all of 5min and that includes changing the water I'm dipping the motor in. The rpm limit where I usually run just eliminates all the motor stuff. Right now all my efforts are on car set up which is as interesting as building motors. Just amazing what you can do with different shock set ups.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:55 PM   #60
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Mark, sent you another reply to your PM. Sorry you didn't get the first one
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