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Old 11-09-2010, 03:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by bakaguyjean View Post
Dont get the wrong idea about The F1 RC GP series here in Japan,its more people trying to make a buck off RC F1than it is people that like F1. Its really a bad scene.
Do you mean that they are just in it for the $$ or it's not really competitive, or both? It looks awesome from 3000 miles away
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:46 PM   #62
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We've got some guys running F1s informally out here in Denver, CO on a pretty short sealed road course. Most are F103s and 3Rs version. I had to be different and get an F201. As many have attested on this thread the simpler, lighter (~240gms) F103s, etc are quicker. They run stock 540s and I've an HPi Firebolt in mine (because I'm heavier). I've got the advantage from a standing start but if I make the slightest mistake (and I do, quite often), they're past me in a flash and it's next to impossible to catch up. The extra weight works against me in every way it can at that point (well, that and my driving) and I do all I can to try to catch those light SOBs but mostly to no avail. I retrospect, my car by in large is untested and I'm running it out of the box on worn rubber (they run foams) but I love the looks of the 201 and the complexity (realism) of the chassis. These cars are fun.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:09 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Madoge View Post
We've got some guys running F1s informally out here in Denver, CO on a pretty short sealed road course. Most are F103s and 3Rs version. I had to be different and get an F201. As many have attested on this thread the simpler, lighter (~240gms) F103s, etc are quicker. They run stock 540s and I've an HPi Firebolt in mine (because I'm heavier). I've got the advantage from a standing start but if I make the slightest mistake (and I do, quite often), they're past me in a flash and it's next to impossible to catch up. The extra weight works against me in every way it can at that point (well, that and my driving) and I do all I can to try to catch those light SOBs but mostly to no avail. I retrospect, my car by in large is untested and I'm running it out of the box on worn rubber (they run foams) but I love the looks of the 201 and the complexity (realism) of the chassis. These cars are fun.
Sound a lot like a real F1 race. Must be fun.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:16 PM   #64
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In full size racing, formula one does not get enough audience in U.S.
This should change when the the track in Austin, TX is done. I'll be all over that race. Went to Indy when it was here but it just never seemed the right place.
BTW and not that it makes the car a world beater, but there was a slick 2wd conversion to the F201 done by another racer some time back. He no longer races but was good enough to e-mail the plans and measurements for the bulkheads he machined. I think with some work it could be really good as the F201 suspension allows for some good adjustments. It figures though....when I was working I had no time....now I'm unemployed and I have plenty of time but no money !! Such is life in this Obamanation.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by JohnWinn View Post
If someone were to bring an updated version of this:

http://d-drivesportsenglish.blogspot...kyosho-f1.html

I'd be all over it!
I have one of these. I ran it a few times. It sounds like a coffee grinder, handles like a roller skate, but looks really cool.

I've been lurking in the back ground of this thread since it started. I think there are some very valid points for updating the current F1 cars...but do they really need to be? The F103 had a 13+ year life span and several variations over the years. It was old school...but it worked. Was it because of its simplicity, its low cost, its scale looks, or all of it? I think it was the last.

Listen, I like F1 because they're cool looking, fun to wrench on, exciting to watch, they're 2wd (like the real ones) and they're difficult to drive...You turn a fast lap or have a wheel to wheel race in one of these and it's all smiles. Because it's not easy...you have to try hard and work at it. How many of you buy a brand new PS or X-box game, then download all the cheats before you get started? I think these are the guys that want it easy...just my $0.02
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:59 PM   #66
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...and 103's still win. If it ain't broke don't fix it
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:27 PM   #67
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...and 103's still win. If it ain't broke don't fix it
Very true. What I can't understand is when they get something cool out there it goes on the discontinued list.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:12 PM   #68
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I have one of these. I ran it a few times. It sounds like a coffee grinder, handles like a roller skate, but looks really cool.

I've been lurking in the back ground of this thread since it started. I think there are some very valid points for updating the current F1 cars...but do they really need to be? The F103 had a 13+ year life span and several variations over the years. It was old school...but it worked. Was it because of its simplicity, its low cost, its scale looks, or all of it? I think it was the last.

Listen, I like F1 because they're cool looking, fun to wrench on, exciting to watch, they're 2wd (like the real ones) and they're difficult to drive...You turn a fast lap or have a wheel to wheel race in one of these and it's all smiles. Because it's not easy...you have to try hard and work at it. How many of you buy a brand new PS or X-box game, then download all the cheats before you get started? I think these are the guys that want it easy...just my $0.02
That say's it all folks. Although the 4wd car was fun at the time, I don't think many of us missed it when it was gone. F1 rc is still cool and Vyger spelled it all for ya. Personally I'd love to see more active suspension systems long before I'd want 4wd.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:40 AM   #69
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It's funny that the kyosho has pull rod suspension as redbull went to that system on the rear recently to help the areo package .

When in the uk we had f1 series that were made up of all tamiya cars, corally released a pro10 inspired f1 chassis. It was far superior to the tamiyas and in many place thrashed them. At my local club there was one guy with one who didn't do so well but that was not the cars fault .

If f1 had been as big as tc for the last 15 years the f103 would be long forgotten and much fast more complex designs would have been released pushing the rules to the limit. The only thing that means the f103 is still fast enough is because of the lack of global interest in the class.

The f201 is slow because it is built more as a toy that a real race machine. If you put a f1 shell on the latest touring chassis with foam tires you would no doubt go a lot faster.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #70
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The f201 is slow because it is built more as a toy that a real race machine. If you put a f1 shell on the latest touring chassis with foam tires you would no doubt go a lot faster.
I have to disagree with your statement. It's not built like a toy in the least. If anything it's a case over overengineering and its slower because it weighs more. The F201 can be competitive and it looks like what its supposed to represent. I'll take scale realisim over outright speed any day.

Here's a old writeup on the F103 vs. F201:

During assembly, the following Tamiya Hop-Up parts were used to fine-tune the F201 for maximum performance.

53513 F201 Turnbuckle Shaft Set
The Turnbuckle Shaft Set allows easy adjustments to rod lengths. This is key for precise pushrod adjustments. Otherwise, the ball end must be removed and one ball end rotation could be excessive.

53514 F201 Reinforced Prop Shaft
Not only is the Reinforced Prop Shaft stronger than the stock component, it is also less prone to power robbing driveline play. This can increase acceleration, top speed and run time.

53515 F201 Racing Spring Set
Balancing the handling of any chassis is critical for optimizing cornering speed. The Racing Spring Set offers three spring rates to help balance the F201 for a variety of conditions.

53518 F201 Aluminum Motor Mount
Heat can quickly weaken motor magnets during operation resulting in poor acceleration and reduced efficiency. The Aluminum Motor Mount helps cool the motor as well as improving motor support.

53519 F201 Aluminum Rocker Arm (2 sets used)
To complement the Racing Spring Set, the Aluminum Rocker Arms reduce play and allow leverage adjustments via spacers. Adding a spacer to the shock side of the rocker will stiffen the suspension by giving the shock and spring more leverage over the arm and visa versa.

53521 F201 Lightweight Diff Joint (2 sets used)
The Lightweight Diff Joints are not just lighter than the stock components, but last longer as well. The range of adjustment is also greater due to the thrust bearing location much like the 414M differentials.

53522 F201 Universal Shaft (2 sets used)
Universal Shafts can improve efficiency and reduce axle hop caused by worn dog bones. Universals are most important at the front of the car due to constant steering angles.

Each of these Hop-Up Options provide a specific effect on performance and/or durability of the F201 (Carbon motor brace was hand made and is not TCS legal). However, what is the F201's potential and how does it compare to the F103 it's replacing? To find the answer, a fully hopped-up F103 was borrowed from former F-1 TCS National Champion David Beale and it was put up against my F201 from the TCS North American Finals Exhibition Race. The track: Tamiya America, Inc. Test facility in Aliso Viejo California. Driver: David Jun. A direct drive 2WD pan car vs. a shaft drive 4WD car may seem unfair but the results may surprise you. Three tests were made with three different motors. The F103 was equipped with Tamiya Type B slicks and because the Tamiya F201 Hop-Up tires were not yet available, the F201 was equipped with Pit Shimizu Hard rubber.

Test one:
Both cars were equipped with silver can Johnson 540 motors. The F103 was geared at 3.45:1 and because the stock gearing on the F201 is very short, the TB Evolution 55T 0.4 pitch gear with a 41T pinion was used (final drive 3.51:1). On the track, as expected, the F103 had much better acceleration and top speed. The F201's advantage surprisingly came in the corners with better turn-in and corner speed. Best lap for the F103 was a 15.2 and for the F201, a 15.7.

Test two:
The cars were now equipped with 24-degree stock motors. The F103 gearing was changed to 3.72:1 and the F201 was returned to the stock 7.15:1. With the F201 Speed Tuned not yet released, the F103 had a gear ratio advantage. On the track, the F103 benefited on the straightaway but could only use some of the extra power in the corners. The F201 also gained top speed and was also able to take advantage of the power in the corners. Best lap for the F103 was a 15.0 and for the F201, a 15.2. From the lap times, the F103 gained 2 tenths from the motor change but the F201 gained half a second despite the low gear ratio. The F103 held the fastest lap in this test, however, the average lap time was virtually identical. We can only imagine what the F201 could have done with the Speed Tuned Gear Set.

Test three:
What would happen if a motor that matched the F201's gear ratio was used? On the TRF 414M, a 13T motor would equate to a good choice for a 7.15:1 ratio. The Tamiya Dyna Run Touring Motor is a 13T double so it was installed in both cars and the F103's gearing was adjusted to 3.88:1. On the track, the F103 was incredibly fast and applying too much throttle would easily spin the tires. Cornering speed was also improved by powering the car through the turns. As expected, the F201 was also incredibly fast on the straightaway (close to the speed of the F103). Top speed still went to the F103 but the acceleration advantage went to the F201. In the corners, the F201 really showed it's strength by putting down all the power entering and exiting the corners, carrying more speed. The lap times confirmed this with the F201 taking fastest lap of 14.3 and the F103 with a 14.6. The average lap times were nearly half a second faster in favor of the F201.

Analyzing all the lap times showed the advantages and disadvantages of both cars. The F103 chassis shows strengths in its direct drive train and overall lightweight. This allowed for quick acceleration and high top speeds. The F201 had an advantage in the corners with faster turn-in and the ability to carry more speed in the turns. The F103 speed advantage was primarily apparent only with low powered motors. Overall, the F201 showed an advantage beginning with 24-degree motors and the more powerful the motor, the faster the F201 was over the F103. In conclusion, the F201 is a worthy successor to the F103 with its realistic suspension, vast tuning ability and flat out performance.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:44 AM   #71
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That's really interesting. And who is going to argue the driving style with Mr Jun at the wheel Going by that report, a TRF F201 would actually kick-a*s!
I still stand by my preious comment that the class needs to grow before it start to get split. The rate it's going, there will be some solid F1 racing around the world in the next few years, the US is one of the last countries to be catching on by the look of things.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:09 AM   #72
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The rate it's going, there will be some solid F1 racing around the world in the next few years, the US is one of the last countries to be catching on by the look of things.
I think once the major tire companies get involved in the US market it'll take off. Don't know if that will be a good thing though. Once it goes mainstream, corruption ensues, unfortunately.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:27 PM   #73
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"If anything it's a case over overengineering and its slower because it weighs more. The F201 can be competitive."

That part is true. The full option 201 was very fast out of the box. And if you were lucky to get one the MLP chassis was at the top of that heap. I'm converting mine to 2wd so I now have a 2wd F1 with full suspension but I'll keep the d-drives ready if needed.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:45 PM   #74
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Regardless of how well it handled or how fast it was...out of the box the F201 was built more like a toy than a race car. The plastics they used was the same as their toy level cars and the amount of tweak that car would retain was horrible. Even after the chassis was changed out to a good aftermarket one the car still needed additional bracing (which came about later) for the suspension arms and for the rocker arms because the gear boxes had too much flex. Even the tuned version failed to over come the short falls of the design. The independent suspension and in-board shocks were very cool...But the application of the design was sorely lacking. I was extremely pleased to see the old F103 design return and the F201 design retire. Now if we eventually get a fully independent F103 with inboard shocks...I'll be very happy
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:09 PM   #75
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That's really interesting. And who is going to argue the driving style with Mr Jun at the wheel Going by that report, a TRF F201 would actually kick-a*s!
InspGadgt - +1 I would have to agree

Don't you think you should keep in mind Mr. Jun works for Tamiya...would you expect him to say the car was crap? I know Dave is honest and has a lot of integrity, but in my opinion they had to throw motor at the F201 to make it out perform the 103.

If the F201 was the all-singing all-dancing replacement to the 103 why did it have such a short lifespan and why didn't aftermarket companies continue to embrace it? Because it failedif it was being measured on looks than the F201 had it hands down. A pack of 10 201's going around the track was awesome to watch, they look very scalebut drop an F103 into the mix and you had 9 upset guys saying it wasnt fair.
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