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Old 11-07-2010, 01:03 AM   #16
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I disagree on the corner speed thing. A 2wd is WAYYYY faster around corners. It's all about how you drive them.
Regardless, I think all the class splitting of touring cars is the beginning of the end for touring. It's had a long reign, but cars like the 2wd F1 at the top of this thread are cheap, look great, and drive OK too. 10 of them on the track at once is so cool to watch.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:45 AM   #17
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Just got home from the track running 2wd F1s. Simple, scale speed, so much fun
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:59 AM   #18
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2wd F1 is appropriate for the sake of scale realism.

What would make it cooler would be four wheel independent suspension. However, the pan car model is hard to ignore for the simplicity.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:33 AM   #19
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2wd F1 is appropriate for the sake of scale realism.

What would make it cooler would be four wheel independent suspension. However, the pan car model is hard to ignore for the simplicity.
im workin on making the F1 chassis 4w independent! front is done and looks promising,testing will begin on the front next week, and it is high nose
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:40 AM   #20
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I disagree on the corner speed thing. A 2wd is WAYYYY faster around corners. It's all about how you drive them.
Regardless, I think all the class splitting of touring cars is the beginning of the end for touring. It's had a long reign, but cars like the 2wd F1 at the top of this thread are cheap, look great, and drive OK too. 10 of them on the track at once is so cool to watch.
F1 silver can class at my track is just as fast as 17.5 no boost touring class. Same lap times if not faster. Touring car will never end they're just other classes that breath new life. F1, GT, FWD ff-03 and now a resurgance of 1/12 scale.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:56 AM   #21
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Interesting question. So many aspects to this question. Even Bernie Eccelstone can't get all the concepts perfected as tracks rules and regulations keep shifting.

All I can say is cheap is not everything. Who knows how many Ferrari F60 and F104 Pro kits have been sold, and now people are scarfing up lotus kits with no intention of racing them. None of those are cheap. Yet around my area the cheap HPI F10 cars have completely disappeared. Four wheel drive f1 were complicated and not very popular. But a new generation car might be attractive but there are a lot of four wheel drive cars already out there.

We had a full grid of two wheel drive miniz f1 cars a few weeks ago but yesterday only two tenth scale cars. Go figure.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:06 AM   #22
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I think it has a lot to do with the club of racers. F1 cars are all fast, difficult, delicate, so the battle is between the personalities. If the drivers are not "bench racing" each other between rounds, discussing setups, helping each other, well, you can imagine how the club will fare in a month or two. It doesn't matter if it's two wheel drive or 22.5, it's a battle. Without the drama, the program will fade away, especially in this economy.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:09 AM   #23
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A 4wd F1 car will just ruin the class. Then the whole esc wars will come into play yet once again. My opinion less is more
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:32 AM   #24
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im workin on making the F1 chassis 4w independent! front is done and looks promising,testing will begin on the front next week, and it is high nose
So would you mind showing some pics of your progress? This is something I would love to do for my F103-GT. I've already made some minor changes/improvements to mines but would really love to have a better indepent front suspension.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:07 PM   #25
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Back in the day we had entry-level classes. It was called "Novice." If I recall correctly, it worked well. The novice class basically mirrored the stock class, except the skill levels were different. Whatever the organization deemed appropriate, bumped you up to the stock class, whether that was a certain number of first place or podium finishes, a certain number of races etc. Now the trend seems to be to find as many different, yet similar classes a club can run to attract new faces. Every week I check here, it seems there is a new mutation of an already existing class.
+1,it's seems only guys that push this so call entry level just want to shine over new drivers,has nothing to do with cost just look at the GT class a great class less some people don't want to call any names but now you have put a $200.00 tranny,change the clutch,tires !! so there goes low cost,"novice" is the way to go.Just my opinon
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:28 PM   #26
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"A 2wd can be faster down the straight, but loses out in the corners to a 4wd, but for driving, you have to be a far better driver to drive a 2wd fast"

I would have to disagree on that. The 4wd's are heavy and have to adjust to that. Not that it's bad but when the traction is there it's hard to get under a d-drive in any turn. Still, it always comes down to driver skill. A good driver with a bad car will win more than a bad driver with a good car.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #27
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Tamiya did the 4wd F1 around 2004, but did not catch on.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:40 PM   #28
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F1 is 2wd because real F1 is 2wd.

I had the f201 (Tamiya).
It was very cool looking and well engineered.

My 15 year old F103 with the same motor and pack is/was twice as fast and more fun to drive.
If you are talking about a 2wd independent rear f1 car..it will not be as fast as an old school pan car. Pound for pound the weight difference (with the same motors/packs) will take it's toll on the heavier car.Unless one were to use some seriously light weight material which would drive up the price of the kit or conversion.
Would it be cool? YES!
But I don't think it has a place or would effect the current club level F1 classes.

I agree with Gasshuffer.
Current F1 club racing is growing every weekend at many local tracks.
Let it grow and leave it alone.

Last edited by j.d.roost; 11-07-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:51 PM   #29
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jagged edge, I agree with you about Vintage Trans Am not being 4WD. Where I race we have started a Vintage Trans Am pan car class with spec motors, batteries and tires. It is very fast and realistic because the cars are direct drive 2WD which makes them more realistic; and because we run it as a spec class it is very affordable.

MantisWorx, please keep us informed and updated on your full independent suspension F1 car. I also have a design for one that is extremely radical and would like to see what you come up with to compare. I have been in contact with the president of ROAR trying to convince them to change the rules regarding the F1 class to allow fully independent suspensions. The sticking point is the rule that states that the cars must have solid rear axles. If we can get them to change that rule, then we could have true fully independent rear suspensions on the F1 cars. Basically what ROAR has done is apply the same rules for pan cars to the F1 class, which in my opinion is wrong. The current pan car design is over 30 years old and actually can be traced back to slot car design as they(slot cars) are simple pan cars with a solid rear axle. No surprise there as the people who designed the original RC pan cars came from slot car racing. I have tried to point out to ROAR that they are being too restrictive and are hampering any design progress and forcing the manufacturers to adhere to an archaic 30+ year old concept. I think F1 should be more scale realistic with 2WD and fully independent suspensions. I have found a way to do that and still make them direct drive as well.

I will keep after ROAR about this and we shall see how this all plays out.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:15 PM   #30
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I have much respect (former member) for roar.

On a club level (ie.folks that are keeping the racing part of the hobby alive week to week) I can't tell you the last time I have been to a track and someone brought up roar or roar rules ect..

If someone wants to make a independent suspension rear f1 car that's cool.
(Roar rules don't mean jack as far a that's concerned)

As far as local tracks are concerned...well most classes enforce a motor/esc/battery per class.

With irs, a car is going to be MUCH heavier.
Unless your club is running lower than 17.5/boost
it's not going to make much difference.

Now open the rule book at a local track...that's a different story but you will just end up having a few guys showing up with three different style f1cars and no class to race them in.

Last edited by j.d.roost; 11-07-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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