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Old 10-31-2010, 10:24 PM   #91
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its really not all that big a deal, when boost came out, it was cool as all get out and I loved it. but our 17.5 stock class was just way to damn fast to be called stock anymore and bringing new people in was difficult. One of my local tracks decided to split the class into expert and sportman. nonsense, and I still feel that way. if you want to slow down, then put a slower motor in. well we can't make the racer spend money on motors so no way. lets just turn the power down. BS. however with the removal of the timing 17.5 has returned to 'normal' stock speeds and is more enjoyable for the masses with newbies joining in the fun in increasing numbers. to me its simple

novice, 21.5 no timing software.or spec esc, cheat if you must who cares

stock, 21.5 with timing.

superstock 17.5 with timing (that is if you must have a 'middle' class

and Mod, which I'm finding out that a boosted 10.5 is plenty for this old guy.

RCGT and VTA and SP club spec classes, who cares, that should be a club decision as not all clubs run these classes, and THEY SHOULD NOT BE OFFERED AT NATIONALS OR MAJOR EVENTS.

end of story, all those in favor, say I, all those opposed .. I don't care, its my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

as far as El S's post, I know of which he speaks, we (they) are using 1/12 as a entry level class and its growing and thats fine, but the big boy class (wgt) should have been left alone, and I can say that after a TQ and win under the no boost rule. driving pinned really isn't all that much fun.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:40 AM   #92
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Just a couple more points. I may be the minority here but I'd like to know if anyone else feels the same way.

1. I came from the RC aircraft world and was into scale in a big way. As such, a big part of the enjoyment I get out of racing RC cars is based on how they look. If a RCGT car is going so fast that it looks like an HO slot car with magnetic down force, it just loses all it's appeal to me. I like the cars to look realistic and I like the speeds to not be to ridiculous. I also think the car should slide around a bit if you are too aggressive getting back into the throttle. So, not all of us want to slow things down with the hopes of being able win a race. I'm not that naive. I know full well that slowing things down makes it even harder to pass and makes driving a good line even more important.

2. I said it once before but I think I need to say it again. The way you police this stuff is not by checking software or hardware. Just can't be done. You have to do it on the track. Get a radar gun and set a max speed for the class. Use spec tires as well. The tires will dictate the speed in the infield and the radar gun will dictate the speed on the straight. Give the gun to one of the turn marshals. He can tell which cars are really fast and check them once in a while. If you go too fast on the straight, you lose a lap. Just having the gun out there will stop the cheating. You will only actually have to check a couple of cars in a couple of races to nip it in the bud. A good radar gun can be had for about $90. That's a whole lot cheaper than computers, software and interfaces.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:21 AM   #93
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I realy enjoy 17.5 racing.. Working the speedo bringing the edge out if the motor is easier and cheaper then we ever have had in the past... Motor dyno with comm cutters and nimmh matchers in the pits to try to get the edge before was much more costly then today were we hunt for the sweet spot with boot curves and turbo.... The speed of racing feels over all faster but I relate that more tword most of the drivers are now driving a main motor speedo combo with equal batts... So the comp is way up....

We are seeing locally great strength in tc and 1/12 classes with all the SS 13.5 classes going soft and the mod classes taking some pretty good market share for those that can hang on to it.. Foam tc 17.5 and 1/12 17.5 are turnig the same lap as each other and both have similar spread to there mod counterparts in lap times... So the fast guys really are not going any aster then they did 4 or 5 years ago and the fast stock guys are about the same amount behind the fast mod guys... Just more of them are right there on pace.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Exactly....
Plus 2

Talk about stupid


Track after track across the country


one track uses a 13.5 with boost , the other track no boost.
Then there's the tracks with 17.5 only and the same bull with the boost .
Top it all off with a few who are running 19T brush to keep up with the 13.5's with boost ...

This is not stock

Stock has been run into the ground by turning it into some kind of bull class that has confused the daylite out of new racers ...

That's stupid if you ask me ...
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Last edited by Wild Cherry; 11-01-2010 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:30 AM   #95
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I like LRP


I "LOVE" my tekin!!!
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:02 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Plus 2

Talk about stupid


Track after track across the country


one track uses a 13.5 with boost , the other track no boost.
Then there's the tracks with 17.5 only and the same bull with the boost .
Top it all off with a few who are running 19T brush to keep up with the 13.5's with boost ...

This is not stock

Stock has been run into the ground by turning it into some kind of bull class that has confused the daylite out of new racers ...

That's stupid if you ask me ...
Says the guy who only runs offroad and who's home track calls 13.5 boosted 'Stock'. Runs a7.5 in mod and gets beat by a slower 10.5. Must be the driver. Not the motor. So much fcor your ignore button
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:13 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by jkirkwood View Post
Plus the fixed timing rule only only makes racing more expensive because the motor and battery that much more important.
This WOULD be true, if the racer wasn't already buying the motor and battery that he/she thought was the best.

When you spec a no timing class using the speedpassion esc and motor that cost 80 bucks for the set, where's all this expense?
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:29 PM   #98
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Really, programming my esc with the boost etc. is so difficult...
It`s the hardest thing i ever did,
I dont want to drive that classe, i`m simple...

(got my chassis perfect bye the way...)

Guys, if you cant handle things, just dont use it,
set up your own ZERO class at your local track....
Dont complain about things you dont understand....!!!
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:07 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
This WOULD be true, if the racer wasn't already buying the motor and battery that he/she thought was the best.

When you spec a no timing class using the speedpassion esc and motor that cost 80 bucks for the set, where's all this expense?
The expense comes up when the competitors are looking to maximize the performance under a fix timing rule set. Each of the rotors, sensor boards, cans and stators are slightly different even in the same brand witch effects performance. Because of the differences each motor to run at peak performance really needed a different timing mapping on the ESC. Before the ESC timing came out competitors was already matching these components for the edge and getting good success out of it. What was discovered after the ESC timing was introduced is that matching the components wasn't as necessary as you could map and gear around the "defects" of the motor and be really competitive as long as you was willing to do your homework and learn your equipment besides copying everyone else's settings.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:13 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by speedybill View Post
I "LOVE" my tekin!!!
As I said many pages back---boosted and non-boosted is here to stay. It's just created TWO different class's for racing!! Simple, like having real cars either "super charged" or not---you can't run them together!! Now you have to run either a boosted/timing class, or a non-boosted/ non-timing class.
Simple huh? And NOT necessarily better---just different!!
Done typing---going racing!!
T
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:37 PM   #101
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No Boost Class

Pro
- slower, realistic, controllable speeds
- entry point for newbies, will grow the hobby
- cheaper on tires and parts
- fun

Con
- none in my view

Cheating not an issue. It's a problem in all forms of racing and not limited to the non-boost class.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:55 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
No Boost Class

Pro
- slower, realistic, controllable speeds
- entry point for newbies, will grow the hobby
- cheaper on tires and parts
- fun

Con
- none in my view

Cheating not an issue. It's a problem in all forms of racing and not limited to the non-boost class.
+1
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:07 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
This WOULD be true, if the racer wasn't already buying the motor and battery that he/she thought was the best.

When you spec a no timing class using the speedpassion esc and motor that cost 80 bucks for the set, where's all this expense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirkwood View Post
The expense comes up when the competitors are looking to maximize the performance under a fix timing rule set. Each of the rotors, sensor boards, cans and stators are slightly different even in the same brand witch effects performance. Because of the differences each motor to run at peak performance really needed a different timing mapping on the ESC. Before the ESC timing came out competitors was already matching these components for the edge and getting good success out of it. What was discovered after the ESC timing was introduced is that matching the components wasn't as necessary as you could map and gear around the "defects" of the motor and be really competitive as long as you was willing to do your homework and learn your equipment besides copying everyone else's settings.
That's a well thought out nicey put together post but it completely ignores what I actually wrote.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:10 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by timmig View Post
As I said many pages back---boosted and non-boosted is here to stay. It's just created TWO different class's for racing!! Simple, like having real cars either "super charged" or not---you can't run them together!! Now you have to run either a boosted/timing class, or a non-boosted/ non-timing class.
Simple huh? And NOT necessarily better---just different!!
Done typing---going racing!!
T
Quote:
Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
No Boost Class

Pro
- slower, realistic, controllable speeds
- entry point for newbies, will grow the hobby
- cheaper on tires and parts
- fun

Con
- none in my view

Cheating not an issue. It's a problem in all forms of racing and not limited to the non-boost class.

Plus 1 and 2
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:27 PM   #105
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Default Why is this sooooooooooooo darn complicated...

I have been racing on and off for well over 20 years now and I just enjoy racing. I will run the classes availabe because I enjoy the hobby, people and compitition. What I do not enjoy is the fact that we feel we need 10 different classes to keep everyone happy. This is just silly!

Most of my racing up until lately, you had two classes. Stock and Mod (Why again is this so difficlut!!!)

Designate two simple classes and go racing (Per car type obviously!)

Either 21.5 or 17.5 class (No Timing)
Mod Class Anything with timing and any motor...

Most often there is a limited amount of motor you can even put down and the guys who can run a 7.5 and clean up are most likely the same guys who would win with a 10.5 or a 13.5 motor...

I am really sick of hearing people complain about he cost aspect... It is racing and yes most of us do not have unlimited budgets to apply to racing, but we have access to equipement that is on par with pretty much the best out there for not nearly the same cost as what we spent years ago... The old battery and motor wars... Now that was costly!

I am a big oval racer and I do not have a huge budget these days and I am confident I have the equipment to be competitive at almost any level of racing I go to (Rather I have the ability is a completely different story!!!)

I used to spend hours and hours on the dyno ($400+) running 2-3 stock ($30 bucks each) motors testing 3-5 different brush and spring combinations (Had a huge box of brushes and spirngs) ($100.00) to find the magic combination! Go and race 2-3 races and then use my comm lather to turn the com (Lathe $200.00) Oh, comm is to small now, need new Arm ($20.00+) and then do it all again before the mains...

Go to run and have everything perfect and relize that I need matched, pushed, zappedd bla bla bla xxxx Mah battery to compete now as that is what all the team guys have!!!

My point is the story above references a cost of over $800.00 in equipment to stay competitive and this was $800.00+ in the lat 90s not todays money!!!

My main point, please stop the down talk about technology and timing, iron out just a few simple classes, go racing and enjoy the fact that it is much less expensive to have top level equipment then it EVER used to be!!!
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