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Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost

Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost

Old 10-29-2010, 06:31 PM
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Bob Novak......at dinner after a race.....Peter Robinson was sitting right next to me...

The statement was in talks about Oscar Jansen arguing brushless controllers could be used as a traction control device.....as it evolved, the statement was made....nothing one could do to a controller could make the motor faster....

I am sure if you search for the carpet nats thread when brushless was made legal two weeks before the event, you will find similar statements, assuming they were not edited, like many were during that fiasco.....

People have been cheating in RC since it started......batteries, tires, bodies, motors, you name it.....someone, some where probably has cheated with it. Just give it time, all its gonna take is one tech geek to start racing and go, wow, I can hack an iphone....I can hack this too. Besides, you guys have already given them the tools with programs like Novalink, Hotwire, etc.....they already have an interface to work with...just need to figure out how to tell that software to make a light blink with boost....

Keep telling yourself its not possible.......millions of dollars are spent to encrypt video games, CAD programs, iphones, etc........they have ALL been cracked....most of the time its not even so they can use it either, just bragging rights.....

Later EddieO
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tallyrc View Post
oh, it's this thread again
+1

Boosted all the way.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:41 PM
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man you can tell EddieO is back already causing problems hahahaa good to see your back into racing again hope everything worked it self out \\
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
Bob Novak......at dinner after a race.....Peter Robinson was sitting right next to me...

The statement was in talks about Oscar Jansen arguing brushless controllers could be used as a traction control device.....as it evolved, the statement was made....nothing one could do to a controller could make the motor faster....

I am sure if you search for the carpet nats thread when brushless was made legal two weeks before the event, you will find similar statements, assuming they were not edited, like many were during that fiasco.....

People have been cheating in RC since it started......batteries, tires, bodies, motors, you name it.....someone, some where probably has cheated with it. Just give it time, all its gonna take is one tech geek to start racing and go, wow, I can hack an iphone....I can hack this too. Besides, you guys have already given them the tools with programs like Novalink, Hotwire, etc.....they already have an interface to work with...just need to figure out how to tell that software to make a light blink with boost....

Keep telling yourself its not possible.......millions of dollars are spent to encrypt video games, CAD programs, iphones, etc........they have ALL been cracked....most of the time its not even so they can use it either, just bragging rights.....

Later EddieO
Maybe, but I have never heard of anyone hacking into a esc's firmware. The early brushless technology conspiracy theories were generally about someone (a racer) hacking into a BL esc and making it do something that would give the hacker an advantage over everyone else. Magical thinking, at its finest!

So far, no speed control has ever been modified (by an outsider) to do anything that the mfgs' microprocessor programmers didn't program it to do. Including hacking the updateable software.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:47 PM
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No-boost class is good for racers like me who cannot control the speed of boost.

As for tech, easy to spot, look at the gearing. If someone is blowing by everyone down the straight with a high FDR (e.g. 5 vs 4) then there must be some timing or boost involved. Then do further esc check with the program card or lights.

Though I disagree on a spec no-boost esc... unnecessary expense. Many already own a non-boost esc (e.g. GTB, LRP TC, etc).
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:53 PM
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My understanding of Tekin's new 208 software is--the ESC will be blinking in neutral position when on --when there's NO boost are timing set in the ESC
Simple huh? Blinking--no timing, solid light--timing

T
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
No-boost class is good for racers like me who cannot control the speed of boost.

As for tech, easy to spot, look at the gearing. If someone is blowing by everyone down the straight with a high FDR (e.g. 5 vs 4) then there must be some timing or boost involved. Then do further esc check with the program card or lights.

Though I disagree on a spec no-boost esc... unnecessary expense. Many already own a non-boost esc (e.g. GTB, LRP TC, etc).
If there were a true, non-boost class, all manufacturers who wished to participate would offer a non-boost controller.

If you build it, they will come.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:00 PM
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Hi NovakTwo,

Im fine with manufacturers offering no-boost escs. What I meant was that races should not be limited to a specific brand/model of non-boost esc. That way those of us with old escs can join without added expense.

Currently racing in the HPI Cup non-boost class. Top 3 drivers using GTB, Hobbywing (no-boost setting), and LRP TC. Fastest laptimes separated by only hundreds of a second despite variety in esc.

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Old 10-29-2010, 07:01 PM
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that would be nice just to have all programmables go away
power profiles is enough... software wars will get out of hand...
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:04 PM
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I wouldn't be so confident nobody has hacked it

And the early theories was not a customer hacking it (though I and many others said it), but Team only software....and now with the Spec mode.....whats to stop a Company, besides ethics, from showing up at a race with subtle boosted software.....

Smyka, doing what I do best!

Later EddieO
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
It is impossible to check the PC programmable/firmware upgradeable controllers for cheating.
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Can you tell me how track owners/race directors can test for cheating with the PC programmable escs?
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
If someone (at Novak) said that a racer could not hack into the esc firmware (e.g. Super Sport esc, at the time) to make the motor go faster, that was correct. And, they still can't.
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Maybe, but I have never heard of anyone hacking into a esc's firmware. The early brushless technology conspiracy theories were generally about someone (a racer) hacking into a BL esc and making it do something that would give the hacker an advantage over everyone else. Magical thinking, at its finest!

So far, no speed control has ever been modified (by an outsider) to do anything that the mfgs' microprocessor programmers didn't program it to do. Including hacking the updateable software.
Why would a track owner/race director need to check for cheating when you yourself have stated that no speed control has ever been modified by an outsider? Or are you implying that some manufacturers themselves are cheating?
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
I wouldn't be so confident nobody has hacked it

Later EddieO
Names or GTFO
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by timmig View Post
My understanding of Tekin's new 208 software is--the ESC will be blinking in neutral position when on --when there's NO boost are timing set in the ESC
Simple huh? Blinking--no timing, solid light--timing

T
LOL, have you been sleeping under a rock all week???!!!!!! Tekin 208!!! LOL, they are the ones that screwed it all up!!!!

Just b/c a light is blinking does not mean the speedo software is legal..... We are screwed until a race director has the ability to tech every speedo (beyond a blinking light)...... The next rule is going to be if you have a blinking blue light on the body that means your car makes weight!!!! How can our racing organizers expect us to spend $1,000's of $$ traveling to races when they cannot tech a car properly?????? If the race organizer has a specific rule they should have a way to inspect the car to meet a specific requirement...... Weight/scale, body/ruler, etc...... Hauling a laptop to the track is a pain, but I think we are screwed.............
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:03 PM
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so are we going to spec the drive frequency too? how about initial drive of the "spec" esc? how about the ramp of the throttle curve? initial brake? manufacture tollerence of the placement of the hall sensors? once that is done are we gonna spec the FDR for every track, or is it gonna be up to the track owner to spec the FDR for what works best with "their" brand of esc/motor combo that might me more or less torquey than some out of towners? cause we all know some motors have different characteristics.. are we gonna limit the on resistance of the esc's so none are more efficient? here's an idea.. spec a slow wind of motor and have folks learn to make it go fast, timing or not.. is 17.5 too fast? maybe its time for 21.5.. we got 2 years out of our 17.5's already.. in the old days that was like 6-10 brushed motors....
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray View Post
LOL, have you been sleeping under a rock all week???!!!!!! Tekin 208!!! LOL, they are the ones that screwed it all up!!!!

Just b/c a light is blinking does not mean the speedo software is legal..... We are screwed until a race director has the ability to tech every speedo (beyond a blinking light)...... The next rule is going to be if you have a blinking blue light on the body that means your car makes weight!!!! How can our racing organizers expect us to spend $1,000's of $$ traveling to races when they cannot tech a car properly?????? If the race organizer has a specific rule they should have a way to inspect the car to meet a specific requirement...... Weight/scale, body/ruler, etc...... Hauling a laptop to the track is a pain, but I think we are screwed.............
wow--why would you EVER race?? There's cheaters and conspiracy under everything.
Guess you should give up and go flying!!
There's lot's of ESC's out there WITHOUT the capability of timing--- use them if you're so worried about someone cheating. Their a LOT cheaper to use also. If people want to be in the timing class--that's the ESC to use. And YES--we'll need more than one ESC to truly make the system work.
FWIW
T
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